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and it hits me oh my gosh this is that

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triangle

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you know there's explanation for

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everything that occurred in the

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Rendlesham forest incident that doesn't

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involve aliens at all it was completely

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silent it comes right over our head it's

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so a classic flying-saucer really

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standing in the clearing he turned over

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to my father and held his hand and he

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looked in his eyes they said we're not

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alone oh my gosh this is that triangle

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UFO for our live show

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we're live every Wednesday at 8 p.m.

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Eastern Standard Time on the dark matter

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radio network please remember to visit

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the website podcast UFO calm for past

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episodes blogs and forums during the

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show feel free to participate live in

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our chat room and don't forget to like

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us on our very active Facebook page

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hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin

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will assure hosts and tonight we have an

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interesting show this this evening with

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David Halpern because he was a teenage

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UFO investigator all the way back in the

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1960s and then he taught Jewish history

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in the religious studies at the

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Department of the University of North

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Carolina Chapel Hill and so with that

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over the years he has come to have some

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interesting ideas on what the UFO

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subject actually could be about it's

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really quite fascinating I'm really

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looking forward to asking him some

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questions about when he was researching

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and a lot more and what he thinks the

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whole thing's about today it's always

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interesting to get points of view like

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that and before that we have Alejandro

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coming up with from open minds TV with

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the UFO updates also I wanted to let you

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know that I've been saying all along

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that we have our show is live on the

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Dark Matter digital network and that's

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every that's every Thursday night from

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10:00 to midnight it's also if you want

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to watch it for free you can watch it a

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course live always

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usually 8 to 10 p.m. Eastern Standard

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Time today we're starting an hour early

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and that's on either YouTube or it's on

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our website and I'm sorry I'm stumbling

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right here because I just need to get

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this radio station then I'm on and

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pardon me just one second

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and that is okay here we go

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it's on out world fleet radio if you

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want to listen to the show for free the

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entire show you can listen to out world

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fleet radio and that's usually Saturday

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evenings at 6 p.m. the full show will

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play on that so if you can't listen on

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Thursdays or listen live you can always

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listen to that show on Saturday Outworld

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fleet radio so keep that in mind and if

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you support the show thank you so much

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and also it takes us two dollars or more

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a month and you can find that

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information on our website which means

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you can play it in your media player

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that full shows you can also listen to

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it online if you'd like and all the

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archives going all the way back about a

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hundred some-odd shows so I think we

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have 260 shows in total and about a

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hundred some-odd shows our to our shows

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Alejandra welcome to the show how are

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you hello I am doing well it's funny you

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know watching you set this up and I hope

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listeners appreciate you know all the

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work you do to make sure you can you can

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do this show live because it's like

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terror you can tell that your heart is

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in your throat you're hoping that you're

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pushing all the right buttons and

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everything's gonna no work and likely

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once in a while it does work every once

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in a while we get it right it's usually

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by accident but yeah but yes it is nerve

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wracking and something a little behind

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the scenes I had been moss on last week

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and I called him early at 7:25 I think

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it was a show was to air at 8 o'clock

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one minute before the show we finally

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got his Skype working and his microphone

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in his camera oh my gosh it was actually

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one minute before 8 o'clock had finally

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all happened but until then he was using

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Skype off a web browser and we know Mike

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I have no idea I said are you sure I

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couldn't understand what was going on so

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anyway we finally got it together like I

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said it was that was about this

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harrowing as it gets

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yeah yeah yeah pretty scary stuff right

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right so and I've been telling this guy

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that has the radio station he plays our

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show on that I wouldn't announce it and

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Here I am scrambling right now you saw

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me scrambling and looking for David

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Dixon that's his name thanks so much

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David for playing our show on your radio

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station so and your show open minds TV I

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just want to announce that last week

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last a couple days ago you and I did the

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show together the whole entire show and

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it was a lot of fun and I've got some

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really nice comments from people on that

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and yeah I've gotten some good feedback

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- so which is nice because you know it

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was just a couple weeks ago someone was

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like you should get to the interviews a

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little more quickly right that's right

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you know everybody's got their opinion

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that's right yeah I've had I've had

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people say oh you don't need the news at

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all why do you need the news just go

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into you know I mean but most I think

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it's important I do - I mean you know

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what's going on and not only that we

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talk about other subjects not just UFOs

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but yeah you know interesting like space

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topics it's important to know what's

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going on right now and know a little bit

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more about the stories that are out

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there so and which is what I'll talk

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about I'll touch on one of the stories

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that we talked about the other day and

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then a couple newer ones and some update

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some things you need to know about some

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of these stories that are out there

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right right and welcome back from

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Budapest we didn't have you last week of

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course because you were in Budapest and

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I'm gonna talk a little bit about that

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that's amazing I'm on the marsett and

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all that so I don't know if that's what

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you want to lead off with her it's up to

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you yeah it was a lot of fun this

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National Geographic show Mars you know

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luckily I get to go to movies and

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interview some directors and writers and

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and and some talent some actors and

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actresses regarding science in movies

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and this is resume works you know they

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this is this promotion company that

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likes to promote science in

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entertainment and so I got to go out

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there to Budapest on National Geographic

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you know paid for it to promote their

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season two of the show Mars which is

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awesome because it's half documentary

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half drama and just because you know

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someone wants me to cover something

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doesn't mean that I'm gonna say oh it's

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a great thing that I loved it because a

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lot of these movies and stuff I'm pretty

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bad I don't like a lot of them but this

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one is awesome

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because it's real science about going to

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Mars and so I highly recommend it one

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season has been out there short seasons

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like six episodes season two is coming

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up and you could go to my Facebook page

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I just look up Alejandro Rojas and

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you'll see some of my pictures from my

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trip and everything and then I'll have

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stories up on the Huffington Post in the

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next few weeks as well now it's

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absolutely beautiful in Budapest I've

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heard a number of people say very

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historic and so I was watching your

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pictures you usually had you were in

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another movie set and but the you had a

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trip on the Danube and all that real

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nice though yeah lots of time most of it

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you know luckily we we kind of get wined

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and dined a bit and we get a hang out

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with the actors and actresses and on

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these things but I was making sure to

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take photos to share the experience and

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it is amazing out there the history the

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architecture it's absolutely incredible

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and then at cordis Studios where they

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shoot this they shoot other things so

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like the last Kingdom there's some

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scenes from Vikings Marco Polo The

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Borgias Emerald City

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Hellboy the Martian the movie the

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Martian so these are some of the stuff

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that's been shot at the same studio

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where they have outdoor and indoor or

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set so yeah I took some pictures and

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videos of that as well do they actually

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have like red colored sand I know that's

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kind of trouble you know I posted some

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videos from the set they outdoor set or

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I posted a video and then also some

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pictures from the outdoor set so no the

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ground is not red so that

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done later they can do amazing things

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that are kind of like you people might

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not know you're behind a green screen

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sorry if I'm you know revealing anything

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but but yes so like they have similar

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technology to you have and they do have

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these gigantic green screens outside

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that they're shooting against and so

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it's pretty crazy

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so they got they make the Mars stuff

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later so in my videos you'll see bushes

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and stuff like that but of course there

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there are no bushes that we're aware of

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on Mars

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no you know you never know the rover

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might take a picture of one sooner or

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later hey so where can someone catch

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this series it's National Geographic the

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National Geographic Channel so another

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series that's really cool and I think

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that right now it's not available I

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guess it did really really well so

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they're a little stashed with it but the

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second season will come out and

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hopefully they'll be more streaming I

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got it on iTunes for 10 bucks and it was

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well worth the 10 bucks but another show

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that's out there and I think it's

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streaming for free on the nat geo app is

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genius and that's about Einstein and

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that is another really really good

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production oh wow wow that sounds great

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sounds great so welcome back we're glad

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to have you back what's going on in the

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UFO world UFOs so this is I think the

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most exciting story going on right now

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and this is these new mysterious signals

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that have been detected and it's

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exciting for a number of reasons there's

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a lot to it so I'll try to go through it

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quickly first of all well these things

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are called FS B's fast or FRBS fast

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radio bursts so they're very quick

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signals they're only like a millisecond

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but they're very bright that they've

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been detecting they've detected these

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over the last like 15 years however

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there are a few of them that are more

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interesting than others because they're

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repeating so radio signals happen

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different cosmic events cause radio

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signals but if it's repeating that that

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typically you know that's kind of the

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marker for potentially demin

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straighting intelligence so that's why

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those are important and there's one in

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particular that they've gotten repeated

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signals so there's this group called

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breakthrough initiative and this there's

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a guy named Yuri Milner he's a

272
00:11:27,410 --> 00:11:26,040
billionaire in Russia and a lot of

273
00:11:29,660 --> 00:11:27,420
billionaires are throwing their money at

274
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:29,670
space you know there's B's Oh sand and

275
00:11:33,980 --> 00:11:32,010
Elon Musk and Bigelow

276
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:33,990
but they're trying to go to space or

277
00:11:38,450 --> 00:11:35,850
build some space hotels and stuff like

278
00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:38,460
that but this guy's looking for aliens

279
00:11:44,030 --> 00:11:42,120
so he is listening for radio signals he

280
00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:44,040
wants to send out these tiny spacecraft

281
00:11:49,730 --> 00:11:47,310
to detect alien and life or the

282
00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:49,740
potential for it in Alpha Centauri and

283
00:11:53,930 --> 00:11:52,170
then he's also yet another one where he

284
00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:53,940
was gonna send out messages but it

285
00:11:59,090 --> 00:11:57,600
seemed like Stephen Hawking talked him

286
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:59,100
out of that one because Stephen Hawking

287
00:12:03,050 --> 00:12:00,480
is afraid that you know aliens will come

288
00:12:05,630 --> 00:12:03,060
and eat us or something if we send out

289
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:05,640
any signals but what they did in this

290
00:12:11,270 --> 00:12:07,410
breakthrough initiative is they took

291
00:12:13,370 --> 00:12:11,280
this Green Bank telescope and they aimed

292
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:13,380
it at this one particular place where

293
00:12:18,590 --> 00:12:16,170
they had gotten these we repeated

294
00:12:21,950 --> 00:12:18,600
signals and they received more sure

295
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:21,960
enough so they received 15 more signals

296
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:23,730
and that's significant because prior to

297
00:12:27,860 --> 00:12:26,010
this there were only a couple dozen

298
00:12:30,170 --> 00:12:27,870
South that was in that were out there

299
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:30,180
this area they've been able to examine

300
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:32,010
and there shouldn't be anything out

301
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:36,930
there making repeated signals so the

302
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:39,870
speculation exists that it could be due

303
00:12:44,510 --> 00:12:41,850
to some sort of civilization or

304
00:12:45,740 --> 00:12:44,520
technology so these radio bursts are

305
00:12:49,010 --> 00:12:45,750
really interesting it's really making

306
00:12:50,690 --> 00:12:49,020
the news right now and it is an open

307
00:12:53,180 --> 00:12:50,700
question some some of the new sorts

308
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,190
sources have said well they've ruled out

309
00:12:57,860 --> 00:12:55,440
aliens not really and the breakthrough

310
00:12:59,930 --> 00:12:57,870
initiative makes a point that no it

311
00:13:01,880 --> 00:12:59,940
hasn't been ruled out we're not sure

312
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,890
what it is because all the speculation

313
00:13:05,870 --> 00:13:03,600
about what could possibly be creating

314
00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:05,880
these signals wouldn't create repeated

315
00:13:11,810 --> 00:13:08,700
signals like they're receiving now do

316
00:13:14,540 --> 00:13:11,820
you happen to know is any telescope or

317
00:13:17,060 --> 00:13:14,550
telescope array going to focus and just

318
00:13:20,570 --> 00:13:17,070
stays you know focused on that

319
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:20,580
particular area at this point not at

320
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:23,250
this point and you know it's real

321
00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:25,850
it costs a lot of money to rent these

322
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:29,040
gigantic telescopes it to use them for

323
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:31,770
this sort of work and and Milner is put

324
00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:33,120
forward I think a hundred million

325
00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:35,250
dollars to do this over the next 10

326
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:37,380
years just and that's just a rental a

327
00:13:41,930 --> 00:13:40,110
scope that's just to rent it to aim it

328
00:13:44,420 --> 00:13:41,940
where they want you know and this is one

329
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:44,430
of the places but I'm sure after this

330
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:47,490
news there will be a more of an effort

331
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:49,530
to continue to listen to those signals

332
00:13:54,110 --> 00:13:51,120
to figure out what it is

333
00:13:56,540 --> 00:13:54,120
nobody has announced any such project

334
00:13:58,760 --> 00:13:56,550
that I'm aware of right now but I'm sure

335
00:14:00,260 --> 00:13:58,770
it'll be coming and I'm sure Milner and

336
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:00,270
breakthrough initiative is gonna spend

337
00:14:05,270 --> 00:14:02,810
more time examining that as well because

338
00:14:06,620 --> 00:14:05,280
you know one of the things Milner is

339
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:06,630
doing is sending all these little tiny

340
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:08,850
spacecraft out into space that's what

341
00:14:13,250 --> 00:14:10,320
they want to do and it'll be powered by

342
00:14:15,590 --> 00:14:13,260
lasers there'll be these little sails

343
00:14:18,140 --> 00:14:15,600
but people have speculated maybe there's

344
00:14:22,060 --> 00:14:18,150
a giant sail spacecraft in this laser

345
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:22,070
that work we're seeing is you know

346
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:25,410
propelling this giant sail spacecraft

347
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:27,810
from another place although one thing to

348
00:14:32,540 --> 00:14:29,730
note is you know should we be afraid of

349
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:32,550
this big spacecraft coming our way the

350
00:14:37,579 --> 00:14:34,770
mother's one thing the mother ship

351
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:37,589
however one thing to note is that these

352
00:14:42,890 --> 00:14:40,290
signals since they were generated so far

353
00:14:43,610 --> 00:14:42,900
away were probably generated millions of

354
00:14:46,430 --> 00:14:43,620
years ago

355
00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:46,440
when we were just wee little microbes

356
00:14:55,430 --> 00:14:50,780
swimming around in the ocean so I yeah

357
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:55,440
tadpoles even less than tadpoles so it

358
00:14:59,870 --> 00:14:57,210
was a long time ago that these signals

359
00:15:02,690 --> 00:14:59,880
were generated and began their journey

360
00:15:07,070 --> 00:15:02,700
for these these wavelengths to reach the

361
00:15:09,170 --> 00:15:07,080
planet Earth so it's probably no current

362
00:15:13,250 --> 00:15:09,180
immediate threat even if it is

363
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:13,260
technology but if we are able to detect

364
00:15:17,150 --> 00:15:14,880
and figure out that there was this

365
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:17,160
ancient you know technological

366
00:15:23,510 --> 00:15:19,680
civilization millions of years ago of

367
00:15:26,090 --> 00:15:23,520
course the implications are incredible

368
00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:26,100
now I could almost see that there could

369
00:15:32,690 --> 00:15:29,070
be a little bit of jealousy from say the

370
00:15:35,570 --> 00:15:32,700
SETI Institute do you happen to know

371
00:15:37,190 --> 00:15:35,580
like Seth Shaw stacks opinion on these

372
00:15:39,170 --> 00:15:37,200
radio bursts as he

373
00:15:42,170 --> 00:15:39,180
has he given any opinion out as far as

374
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:42,180
you know SETI has chimed in and they

375
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:44,970
have been on the side of that we don't

376
00:15:49,390 --> 00:15:46,980
know what these are yet that that it's

377
00:15:52,190 --> 00:15:49,400
still a possibility that there's

378
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:52,200
extraterrestrial in nature so yeah

379
00:15:57,530 --> 00:15:54,330
they're very interested in it you know

380
00:15:58,580 --> 00:15:57,540
one thing about SETI is a city that is

381
00:16:01,730 --> 00:15:58,590
the search for extraterrestrial

382
00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:01,740
intelligence and a lot of times we use

383
00:16:08,570 --> 00:16:05,910
the term SETI to represent the SETI

384
00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:08,580
Institute which is who Shaw stack works

385
00:16:14,450 --> 00:16:11,910
for who the the movie you know by Carl

386
00:16:17,540 --> 00:16:14,460
Sagan contact was all about their the

387
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:17,550
the effort to to listen to these signals

388
00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:19,170
and that's what most people know but

389
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:20,910
actually that the SETI community is

390
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:23,090
anybody out there looking for these

391
00:16:28,130 --> 00:16:25,890
extraterrestrial intelligence so that it

392
00:16:29,870 --> 00:16:28,140
is a broader term and and even though

393
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:29,880
breakthrough is not part of the SETI

394
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:33,210
initiative or yet the city Institute

395
00:16:38,930 --> 00:16:35,040
they're separate it's still a SETI

396
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:38,940
project technically so that's the

397
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:41,010
difference but yeah the SETI folks are

398
00:16:43,580 --> 00:16:43,110
all really excited about it well that's

399
00:16:45,530 --> 00:16:43,590
great

400
00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:45,540
well that is really interesting because

401
00:16:50,630 --> 00:16:48,660
so far you can't it can't be explained

402
00:16:54,110 --> 00:16:50,640
on anything natural the way it is

403
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:54,120
occurring and reoccurring yeah at least

404
00:16:58,670 --> 00:16:56,610
not that we're aware of yeah though

405
00:16:59,660 --> 00:16:58,680
there's got to be more work to look into

406
00:17:02,660 --> 00:16:59,670
it to figure that out

407
00:17:04,010 --> 00:17:02,670
yeah because so far it's always been you

408
00:17:07,610 --> 00:17:04,020
know they've always been able to explain

409
00:17:11,329 --> 00:17:07,620
it you know eventually so you know maybe

410
00:17:12,980 --> 00:17:11,339
this could as well but it would be it

411
00:17:14,740 --> 00:17:12,990
would be such a coincidence that it

412
00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:14,750
could happen it would be a very strange

413
00:17:20,090 --> 00:17:17,730
you know anomaly I would say and the

414
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:20,100
potentials exciting just like you know

415
00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:23,760
the the star tabby star with which is a

416
00:17:29,390 --> 00:17:26,220
star that's pulsating or a day out of

417
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:29,400
regular frequency or and they can't

418
00:17:33,620 --> 00:17:31,140
understand why because it doesn't seem

419
00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:33,630
to be a planet both of these things are

420
00:17:39,170 --> 00:17:37,110
potential extraterrestrial in nature and

421
00:17:41,180 --> 00:17:39,180
what's great is it's got scientists

422
00:17:43,460 --> 00:17:41,190
speculating that wow what if this is an

423
00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:43,470
alien civilization and they're excited

424
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:46,470
about that potential right right um has

425
00:17:51,020 --> 00:17:48,650
there been any more development on that

426
00:17:53,360 --> 00:17:51,030
on tabi tabi star

427
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:53,370
there's been something recent but it was

428
00:17:57,710 --> 00:17:54,810
something along the lines of they still

429
00:17:59,480 --> 00:17:57,720
don't know what the heck it is so pretty

430
00:18:01,940 --> 00:17:59,490
exciting yeah that's good as long as it

431
00:18:06,290 --> 00:18:01,950
doesn't just fade away and nobody talks

432
00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:06,300
I know yeah very well happen how about

433
00:18:10,430 --> 00:18:08,370
you in the UFO world anything going on

434
00:18:12,170 --> 00:18:10,440
in the UFO world yeah I just want to

435
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:12,180
touch on a few things very quickly here

436
00:18:18,770 --> 00:18:14,970
we did post a sighting today at open

437
00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:18,780
minds TV this was a the witness called

438
00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:20,940
it a large spherical object the size of

439
00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:22,830
a helicopter the witness it was in

440
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:25,470
Portugal they were hiking they took a

441
00:18:30,620 --> 00:18:28,650
couple photos of the object and they

442
00:18:34,010 --> 00:18:30,630
even called it at one point kind of an

443
00:18:36,530 --> 00:18:34,020
irregular object object or irregular

444
00:18:39,050 --> 00:18:36,540
sphere and the photos are luckily pretty

445
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:39,060
high-quality so you could zoom in and it

446
00:18:43,250 --> 00:18:41,580
is weird you know typically when you get

447
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:43,260
something like this you assume that

448
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:45,570
they're balloons they often turn out to

449
00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:47,850
be like a mylar balloon but a mylar

450
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:50,340
balloon is usually at a circle or a star

451
00:18:57,020 --> 00:18:53,370
or we've seen letters different shapes

452
00:18:59,360 --> 00:18:57,030
and this one's a little weird it's

453
00:19:01,070 --> 00:18:59,370
really kind of a you can't tell what the

454
00:19:03,020 --> 00:19:01,080
shape is it almost looks like kind of a

455
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:03,030
horseshoe with maybe something that is

456
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:06,090
luminous in the middle of it so it's a

457
00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:08,370
really weird shape and I can't figure

458
00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:10,620
out what it is so it's one of those

459
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:12,990
where you know I'm of course hesitant to

460
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:15,450
jump on the alien spacecraft bandwagon

461
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:18,000
but I love to send these stories out and

462
00:19:22,490 --> 00:19:20,310
kind of crowd crowdsource them so

463
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:22,500
because then everybody tries to figure

464
00:19:27,140 --> 00:19:24,840
out what it is and there's some super

465
00:19:29,780 --> 00:19:27,150
smart people like in our open mind UFO

466
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:29,790
news group and and some of the other

467
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:32,130
online groups who are able to figure it

468
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:34,890
out so I can't wait till to see what

469
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:36,930
people say because this is an unusual

470
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:39,450
one and I'm not sure what the heck this

471
00:19:42,890 --> 00:19:41,250
one is so it's really I think an

472
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:42,900
interesting picture have you gotten a

473
00:19:45,860 --> 00:19:44,250
chance to take a look at that one no

474
00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:45,870
unfortunately I have not I didn't see

475
00:19:49,550 --> 00:19:46,110
that

476
00:19:51,650 --> 00:19:49,560
I've just got rolled in from bust and a

477
00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:51,660
few minutes ago

478
00:19:57,470 --> 00:19:55,110
and so getting back to the people that

479
00:20:00,260 --> 00:19:57,480
oppose their opinion do you do you have

480
00:20:04,290 --> 00:20:00,270
some people that come in with a really

481
00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:04,300
strong and each time that can

482
00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:06,070
often times crack what what they're

483
00:20:10,860 --> 00:20:08,350
seeing well you know we talk a lot about

484
00:20:13,230 --> 00:20:10,870
Mark Dantonio who's the MUFON photo

485
00:20:15,810 --> 00:20:13,240
analyst and he's always great

486
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:15,820
of course he's very thorough so if he

487
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:17,410
tackles something he usually spends a

488
00:20:21,450 --> 00:20:20,050
lot of time at it but he's a busy guy yo

489
00:20:23,250 --> 00:20:21,460
he doesn't have a lot of time to do that

490
00:20:26,460 --> 00:20:23,260
so when he chimes in it's always really

491
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:26,470
good let's see we we've got another guy

492
00:20:30,990 --> 00:20:28,510
named bin Handley who's really good in

493
00:20:34,950 --> 00:20:31,000
the group I think there's a website UFO

494
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:34,960
of interest there's a guy who as a

495
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:37,090
little on the skeptical side for me but

496
00:20:41,130 --> 00:20:39,250
I think his name is Scott Brando but

497
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:41,140
he's often very good and able to crack

498
00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:43,120
some of these cases so I apologize

499
00:20:46,170 --> 00:20:44,590
because I'm leaving some names out

500
00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:46,180
there's there's a lot of really good

501
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:48,220
ones out there people who just put in

502
00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:51,010
some work to really figure it out so mmm

503
00:20:54,690 --> 00:20:52,660
and you put me on the spot and I know I

504
00:20:56,250 --> 00:20:54,700
forgot some people I shouldn't have but

505
00:20:58,050 --> 00:20:56,260
yeah there's it there's a lot of great

506
00:21:00,930 --> 00:20:58,060
ones it makes you wonder if that a

507
00:21:02,250 --> 00:21:00,940
couple of go ahead I just want to make

508
00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:02,260
sure I get these inks I know we're

509
00:21:07,860 --> 00:21:04,870
running oh no that's okay so hang on

510
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,870
just one second so I'm just wondering

511
00:21:11,930 --> 00:21:09,520
like if you could go back in time and

512
00:21:14,730 --> 00:21:11,940
all the unexplained UFO was like in

513
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:14,740
Project Blue Book the 701 and whatever

514
00:21:20,670 --> 00:21:17,050
there is in there if you could go back

515
00:21:22,230 --> 00:21:20,680
in time and really investigate each of

516
00:21:26,220 --> 00:21:22,240
these I wonder how many you could call

517
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:26,230
out you know with within you know what

518
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:28,570
the technology we have today and also

519
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:30,250
with people like you're talking about I

520
00:21:36,660 --> 00:21:33,610
imagine there would be a percentage that

521
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:36,670
would be explained sure I'm sure there

522
00:21:40,790 --> 00:21:38,170
would be and some of them would probably

523
00:21:44,580 --> 00:21:40,800
be a surprise yeah I mean even myself

524
00:21:46,410 --> 00:21:44,590
investigating big cases often I'm

525
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:46,420
disappointed because you follow that

526
00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:48,850
thread and you find some dubious

527
00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:52,240
beginnings or unfortunately you find out

528
00:21:57,630 --> 00:21:54,760
that someone did figure it out and a lot

529
00:22:00,360 --> 00:21:57,640
of times these guys who figure it out

530
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:00,370
don't get a lot of attention the people

531
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:02,770
who say it's not figured out get a lot

532
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:06,250
of attention for instance the lights in

533
00:22:13,500 --> 00:22:09,970
over Mexico that I'm a moose on was

534
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:13,510
given by the Air Force those lights were

535
00:22:18,030 --> 00:22:15,970
figured out pretty quickly by a pilot in

536
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:18,040
Mexico who did some a May

537
00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:21,730
using work and he was unfortunately able

538
00:22:26,130 --> 00:22:24,190
to track them back to those oil rigs a

539
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:26,140
lot of people say I couldn't be that

540
00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:29,520
that's like he's got the math and the

541
00:22:37,140 --> 00:22:34,020
trajectories to prove definitively those

542
00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:37,150
that's what it was they match up

543
00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:39,820
perfectly with the position of the

544
00:22:44,550 --> 00:22:41,980
aircraft and the position of the oil

545
00:22:46,350 --> 00:22:44,560
rigs but he's someone where people don't

546
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:46,360
remember this guy so sometimes people

547
00:22:52,230 --> 00:22:48,370
reproduces work and do the same thing

548
00:22:55,710 --> 00:22:52,240
that happened before we've got a video

549
00:22:58,530 --> 00:22:55,720
at Ben McGee doing this on the site kind

550
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:58,540
of recreating his work but that's just

551
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:01,120
an example of unfortunately you know

552
00:23:05,970 --> 00:23:03,310
when people figure out something they

553
00:23:08,310 --> 00:23:05,980
don't get the attention of its so much

554
00:23:11,070 --> 00:23:08,320
as the people who keep claiming it's a

555
00:23:14,550 --> 00:23:11,080
mystery yeah that's too bad I like when

556
00:23:16,830 --> 00:23:14,560
things are put to bed and sometimes it

557
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,840
has to do with someone working on a book

558
00:23:19,890 --> 00:23:18,400
or something and they don't want they

559
00:23:21,810 --> 00:23:19,900
don't want the truth to get out there

560
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:21,820
which is very fortunate I was kind of

561
00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:23,890
like my focus last week on some of the

562
00:23:28,530 --> 00:23:27,070
topics we touched on but yeah yeah all

563
00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:28,540
right so you said you had a couple of

564
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:30,670
other things going on yeah a couple of

565
00:23:35,910 --> 00:23:33,010
others here's one that's unfortunately

566
00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:35,920
another one that was figured out so and

567
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:37,960
I I can't remember who it is but on the

568
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:40,720
open mind UFO news group on Facebook

569
00:23:45,810 --> 00:23:43,690
someone we posted links to it too but

570
00:23:48,450 --> 00:23:45,820
there's been a big a lot of news about

571
00:23:51,540 --> 00:23:48,460
this UFO being seen in California and

572
00:23:53,490 --> 00:23:51,550
the San Gabriel Valley it was on the

573
00:23:55,140 --> 00:23:53,500
local fox it's gotten all over the place

574
00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:55,150
it's gone viral in the last day or two

575
00:24:01,410 --> 00:23:58,090
but that was figured out it's a balloon

576
00:24:03,420 --> 00:24:01,420
and people were able to zoom in and it's

577
00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:03,430
as a mylar balloon and it's not

578
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:05,590
surprising mylar balloons the writing on

579
00:24:10,290 --> 00:24:08,170
them often looks weird makes a balloon

580
00:24:14,190 --> 00:24:10,300
look weird the shapes are sometimes

581
00:24:16,830 --> 00:24:14,200
weird they move strangely in the wind

582
00:24:18,660 --> 00:24:16,840
but if you see the pictures of the

583
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:18,670
balloon next to what it is and some of

584
00:24:23,970 --> 00:24:20,890
the the zoom in that people have done

585
00:24:27,660 --> 00:24:23,980
it's definitively a balloon so sorry to

586
00:24:29,850 --> 00:24:27,670
burst your balloon on that one yeah but

587
00:24:31,650 --> 00:24:29,860
the other story which is kind of funny

588
00:24:35,730 --> 00:24:31,660
that out there

589
00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:35,740
is this nudist colony this is a store

590
00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:38,020
you in particular would love but this

591
00:24:45,660 --> 00:24:41,350
nudist colony in North and North Wales

592
00:24:50,940 --> 00:24:45,670
keeps reporting UFO sightings so there

593
00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:50,950
are they looking up yeah yeah you go and

594
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:53,230
it would make sense because they don't

595
00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:54,970
have to abduct the people to kind of see

596
00:24:59,070 --> 00:24:57,340
what you know step of your physiology

597
00:24:59,880 --> 00:24:59,080
they can just go to this nudist colony

598
00:25:03,030 --> 00:24:59,890
yes right

599
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:03,040
zoo man yeah look at the different

600
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:05,410
people parts write it down

601
00:25:13,130 --> 00:25:10,240
humans have these several appendages or

602
00:25:16,830 --> 00:25:13,140
I guess if you if some people are into

603
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:16,840
nudism and the UFO sighting it's a

604
00:25:21,810 --> 00:25:18,850
perfect place a perfect vacation for

605
00:25:23,550 --> 00:25:21,820
someone there there you go so so

606
00:25:26,250 --> 00:25:23,560
actually is that kind of the end of the

607
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:26,260
story on that one or there's the end of

608
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:32,410
the story right yes and you oh yeah yep

609
00:25:37,170 --> 00:25:35,050
mort's blonde yeah that's great

610
00:25:40,260 --> 00:25:37,180
all right well hey thank you so much

611
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:40,270
that's it for today my pleasure that is

612
00:25:43,980 --> 00:25:41,890
it for today and of course you can see

613
00:25:45,660 --> 00:25:43,990
all these had open mind stat TV alright

614
00:25:48,630 --> 00:25:45,670
and we'll have you back next week thanks

615
00:25:50,780 --> 00:25:48,640
so much it's it's been really up nice

616
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:50,790
talking to you and I'm glad you're back

617
00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:53,290
thank you I'm glad to be back although

618
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:55,480
it was a lot of fun gorgeous out there

619
00:25:59,760 --> 00:25:57,370
please go look at my pictures on

620
00:26:01,080 --> 00:25:59,770
facebook right right okay I'm going to

621
00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:01,090
attempt to hang you up we'll see what

622
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:02,590
happens alright I'll talk to you next

623
00:26:11,130 --> 00:26:08,530
week alright so that is it and now that

624
00:26:15,270 --> 00:26:11,140
brings us to our guests thank you for

625
00:26:19,290 --> 00:26:15,280
joining us David how are you just great

626
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:19,300
and thank you for having me here yes I'm

627
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:21,490
I'm actually pretty excited because of

628
00:26:29,220 --> 00:26:25,210
your the topic I actually listen to one

629
00:26:32,030 --> 00:26:29,230
of your one of your shows that you did

630
00:26:35,250 --> 00:26:32,040
with Kevin Randle listen to part of that

631
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:35,260
Kevin is a friend of our shows been on a

632
00:26:40,590 --> 00:26:38,110
number of times a friend of the show

633
00:26:42,330 --> 00:26:40,600
here and it's always interesting I I

634
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:42,340
really respect his work and everything

635
00:26:49,420 --> 00:26:44,690
and it was good to hear you on that show

636
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:49,430
particular so you have been an author

637
00:26:56,830 --> 00:26:55,010
and you also you well this is your only

638
00:26:59,680 --> 00:26:56,840
UFO your only book right or it's this

639
00:27:02,320 --> 00:26:59,690
your only book well not exactly I

640
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:02,330
published a whole string of books

641
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:06,770
ranging from the hyper-technical down to

642
00:27:14,950 --> 00:27:11,330
the semi popular on Jewish mysticism and

643
00:27:18,190 --> 00:27:14,960
messianism but this journal of the UFO

644
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:18,200
investigator was the first time I tried

645
00:27:24,370 --> 00:27:23,120
to do a novel oh wow oh it's a novel yes

646
00:27:27,460 --> 00:27:24,380
oh wow

647
00:27:30,490 --> 00:27:27,470
how about that now you you actually got

648
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:30,500
into investigating UFOs at a very young

649
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:34,010
age do you want to talk about that yeah

650
00:27:40,420 --> 00:27:35,810
I'd like very much to talk about it I

651
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:43,240
a friend of mine and I were working

652
00:27:52,150 --> 00:27:49,370
jointly on a an extra-credit paper for a

653
00:27:55,540 --> 00:27:52,160
science class we were both in the 8th

654
00:27:59,320 --> 00:27:55,550
grade and we went to the Levittown

655
00:28:05,530 --> 00:27:59,330
Public Library and they had three books

656
00:28:08,530 --> 00:28:05,540
on UFOs one was grey Barker's they knew

657
00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:08,540
too much about flying saucers another

658
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:13,370
was Carl Jung's flying saucers a modern

659
00:28:18,670 --> 00:28:17,090
myth of things seen in the skies the

660
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:18,680
third which I'm not going to talk much

661
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:22,130
about well there was Frank Scully's

662
00:28:30,010 --> 00:28:26,450
behind the flying saucers but white oak

663
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:30,020
III I borrowed grey Barker's they knew

664
00:28:33,730 --> 00:28:30,890
too much

665
00:28:38,500 --> 00:28:33,740
and took it home and started reading it

666
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:38,510
and I hadn't read more than a chapter or

667
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:40,370
two before I wanted to hide under my

668
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:44,090
deck uh-huh it's a very very scary book

669
00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:46,490
it starts out with the the flatwoods

670
00:28:55,570 --> 00:28:50,600
monster oh yeah and then goes on to the

671
00:28:58,620 --> 00:28:55,580
three men in black who terrorized Albert

672
00:29:02,830 --> 00:28:58,630
cave and ER in Tucson

673
00:29:08,020 --> 00:29:02,840
that he has discovered the secret of the

674
00:29:11,590 --> 00:29:08,030
flying saucers and they come to silence

675
00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:11,600
them quite effectively Wow yeah I can

676
00:29:18,190 --> 00:29:13,180
see why that would be a little scary oh

677
00:29:22,330 --> 00:29:18,200
yeah but also I believed him absolutely

678
00:29:25,780 --> 00:29:22,340
and looking back I want to know why I

679
00:29:29,170 --> 00:29:25,790
believed it I mean I could easily have

680
00:29:33,580 --> 00:29:29,180
written this off as a clumsy attempt at

681
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:33,590
science fiction masquerading as reality

682
00:29:40,690 --> 00:29:38,150
and yet I didn't I was absolutely

683
00:29:44,170 --> 00:29:40,700
convinced I was absolutely convinced

684
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:44,180
that there were flying saucers in our

685
00:29:49,660 --> 00:29:47,810
skies and I was absolutely convinced

686
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:49,670
that there were the three men in black

687
00:29:56,770 --> 00:29:52,610
who silenced those who'd found the

688
00:30:00,450 --> 00:29:56,780
terrible truth and indeed if you asked

689
00:30:03,490 --> 00:30:00,460
me why I believed in flying saucers

690
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:03,500
probably the most accurate answer was

691
00:30:09,570 --> 00:30:06,010
that I believed in flying saucers

692
00:30:12,220 --> 00:30:09,580
because I believed in the men in black

693
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:12,230
if there were no flying saucers after

694
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:13,810
all what were they trying to suppress

695
00:30:21,460 --> 00:30:16,880
now why did I believe in the men in

696
00:30:26,190 --> 00:30:21,470
black and I think now looking back more

697
00:30:32,110 --> 00:30:26,200
than 50 years I can give an answer that

698
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:32,120
I knew the men in black from personal

699
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:39,200
experience in my household we had a

700
00:30:49,690 --> 00:30:45,410
terrible secret that must not be spoken

701
00:30:52,650 --> 00:30:49,700
and this secret was that my mother was

702
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:52,660
not just a semi invalid as we called her

703
00:31:00,880 --> 00:30:56,930
but she was slowly dying from

704
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:00,890
progressive heart disease she did in

705
00:31:11,890 --> 00:31:07,970
fact die when I was 16 I knew she was

706
00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:11,900
dying but I didn't know

707
00:31:25,290 --> 00:31:20,440
I knew the fiction had to be maintained

708
00:31:29,220 --> 00:31:25,300
so when gray Parker wrote about a

709
00:31:34,810 --> 00:31:29,230
terrible secret and its shadowy

710
00:31:43,180 --> 00:31:34,820
enforcers there was something inside me

711
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:43,190
that said yes this is the truth now as

712
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:47,290
you probably know grey Parker himself

713
00:31:59,740 --> 00:31:52,130
had a terrible secret he was a closeted

714
00:32:03,430 --> 00:31:59,750
gay man in 1950s West Virginia the three

715
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:03,440
men in black must have been regular

716
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:07,730
visitors to his psyche so when he wrote

717
00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:11,570
about them he wrote with a terrible

718
00:32:25,390 --> 00:32:21,640
Wow

719
00:32:27,790 --> 00:32:25,400
so you're the the men in black I didn't

720
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:27,800
actually realize that people were

721
00:32:37,540 --> 00:32:33,610
writing about them that long ago who Wow

722
00:32:40,450 --> 00:32:37,550
grey Barker grey Barker was the

723
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:40,460
beginning although he did have a

724
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:45,970
forerunner there was a man in black in

725
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:50,480
1947 who visited Harold Dahl you know

726
00:32:56,169 --> 00:32:53,840
the Maury island story yes yeah that he

727
00:33:01,200 --> 00:32:56,179
that he took out Dahl at least according

728
00:33:06,010 --> 00:33:01,210
to dollars account out to breakfast and

729
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:06,020
told Dahl what no human being could have

730
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:10,370
known the story of those donut shaped

731
00:33:17,740 --> 00:33:13,690
UFOs that felt that one of which

732
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:17,750
disintegrated over Puget Sound okay so

733
00:33:27,730 --> 00:33:21,710
that the man in black goes back to the

734
00:33:32,740 --> 00:33:29,650
I'm not sure I'm pronouncing this

735
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:32,750
correctly right of its and at the moment

736
00:33:38,590 --> 00:33:35,930
I'm blanking on his first name as he

737
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:38,600
wrote about the men in black where the

738
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:44,050
man in black has an August history

739
00:33:50,650 --> 00:33:47,170
stretching back to the witch trials

740
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:50,660
really that the men in black appear the

741
00:33:57,460 --> 00:33:54,250
man in black appears to the witches and

742
00:34:02,670 --> 00:33:57,470
they sign their names in blood in his

743
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:02,680
black book I translated a Hebrew text

744
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,250
from the beginning of the 18th century

745
00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:09,280
describing an incident that happened in

746
00:34:20,380 --> 00:34:15,790
1683 in which the narrator saw three men

747
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:20,390
come down from the moon who visit him in

748
00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:26,330
his bedroom and torment him first with

749
00:34:35,140 --> 00:34:30,710
hideous blasphemies and then with a

750
00:34:38,020 --> 00:34:35,150
fever and in one version of his story he

751
00:34:41,380 --> 00:34:38,030
speaks of them as the as three men

752
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:41,390
dressed in black so here we've got the

753
00:34:49,950 --> 00:34:46,490
three men in black in 1683 do the

754
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:49,960
arithmetic bender was visited by them in

755
00:35:00,100 --> 00:34:55,760
1953 these are entities that keep

756
00:35:03,210 --> 00:35:00,110
recurring Barker put them in what I

757
00:35:07,330 --> 00:35:03,220
would call their modern canonical form

758
00:35:14,980 --> 00:35:07,340
from which Hollywood drew on them about

759
00:35:18,460 --> 00:35:14,990
40 years afterward interesting Wow Wow

760
00:35:21,790 --> 00:35:18,470
so you actually and did some

761
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:21,800
investigating on UFOs back in the you

762
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:25,010
know early on right yeah and one of them

763
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:26,930
I heard you talk with Kevin Randle was a

764
00:35:31,690 --> 00:35:28,730
New Jersey case that ended up being a

765
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:31,700
hoax yes can you talk about some of the

766
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:33,890
ones you've and of course I want to talk

767
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:37,310
more later on about your thoughts of the

768
00:35:44,350 --> 00:35:39,770
connection and sort of like

769
00:35:45,850 --> 00:35:44,360
with religion and UFOs because I think

770
00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:45,860
you have a really interesting philosophy

771
00:35:50,830 --> 00:35:48,950
on that but let's go to first to some of

772
00:35:53,530 --> 00:35:50,840
the investigations that you actually did

773
00:35:57,130 --> 00:35:53,540
yes well Glassboro New Jersey I mean I

774
00:36:01,650 --> 00:35:57,140
was just I was just ecstatic when that

775
00:36:05,710 --> 00:36:01,660
happened uh it was on the September 5th

776
00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:05,720
1964 and that it was a location that I

777
00:36:13,620 --> 00:36:10,750
could reach by bus and I went and I

778
00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:13,630
investigated it a UFO had landed

779
00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:18,110
supposedly and left four markings in the

780
00:36:24,850 --> 00:36:21,470
ground a central crater and then having

781
00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:24,860
rested on a tripod it pressed three

782
00:36:34,870 --> 00:36:29,710
holes in a triangular pattern around

783
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:34,880
that central crater now I will not

784
00:36:41,010 --> 00:36:38,000
iiiiii I won't keep you hanging about or

785
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:41,020
anything we know that that was a hoax

786
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:44,930
the hoaxer tried to sell his story to a

787
00:36:54,490 --> 00:36:49,359
Philadelphia newspaper was arrested

788
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:54,500
convicted of I think nuisance I don't

789
00:37:00,430 --> 00:36:56,330
know whatever what the charge was but I

790
00:37:03,849 --> 00:37:00,440
think he he paid a fine of $10 and he

791
00:37:06,250 --> 00:37:03,859
appeared in the same newspapers your

792
00:37:11,050 --> 00:37:06,260
photos of him with the police lieutenant

793
00:37:15,450 --> 00:37:11,060
who nabbed him the same newspapers that

794
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:15,460
had promoted the the original glasper

795
00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:18,530
from landing I actually I should say

796
00:37:22,450 --> 00:37:20,630
just a few of them just a couple of the

797
00:37:24,730 --> 00:37:22,460
Philadelphia papers the Glassboro

798
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:24,740
Landing nobody remembers it now because

799
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:27,410
it is obvious it was certainly a hoax

800
00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:30,650
but it was I mean I have a huge list of

801
00:37:35,859 --> 00:37:33,230
newspapers that ran the story and was

802
00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:35,869
actually on the Morning News on W our

803
00:37:42,970 --> 00:37:41,060
radio so this made an impact now for a

804
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:42,980
long time I thought there was nothing to

805
00:37:49,630 --> 00:37:45,710
be learned from Glassboro now I'm

806
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:49,640
convinced there is why because when I

807
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:52,850
when I put up a blog published a blog

808
00:37:58,420 --> 00:37:53,690
for

809
00:38:02,289 --> 00:37:58,430
on my adventures in Glassboro that III

810
00:38:05,950 --> 00:38:02,299
got a an email from a lady who said it

811
00:38:08,529 --> 00:38:05,960
was definitely not a hoax why because

812
00:38:11,700 --> 00:38:08,539
the morning after it happened the Air

813
00:38:16,450 --> 00:38:11,710
Force came into town in full force

814
00:38:18,729 --> 00:38:16,460
clamped down on Glassboro and people

815
00:38:21,489 --> 00:38:18,739
could were not allowed to move out of

816
00:38:23,529 --> 00:38:21,499
their driveways well you know could

817
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:23,539
could that have been for the purpose of

818
00:38:28,299 --> 00:38:25,970
they thought something actually happened

819
00:38:30,249 --> 00:38:28,309
there so they were investigating it it

820
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:30,259
never happened I know it never happened

821
00:38:34,809 --> 00:38:32,450
but do you think that yeah

822
00:38:36,249 --> 00:38:34,819
do you think the Air Force assumed that

823
00:38:41,529 --> 00:38:36,259
something may have happened

824
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:41,539
no the lamp down to Bradley oh okay

825
00:38:48,489 --> 00:38:44,480
weekend afterwards nobody breathes the

826
00:38:52,509 --> 00:38:48,499
whisper to me about any of that okay so

827
00:38:59,890 --> 00:38:52,519
the way to get her story and it suddenly

828
00:39:03,910 --> 00:38:59,900
dawned on in June of 1967 Lyndon Johnson

829
00:39:07,809 --> 00:39:03,920
and the send Soviet premier Brijnath

830
00:39:10,859 --> 00:39:07,819
nose Kosygin I'm sorry not Brezhnev met

831
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:10,869
he had a summit meeting in Glasper and

832
00:39:19,799 --> 00:39:14,930
indeed the military clamped down on the

833
00:39:24,999 --> 00:39:19,809
down there was ultra tight security so

834
00:39:30,609 --> 00:39:25,009
we're now seeing almost a laboratory

835
00:39:32,519 --> 00:39:30,619
case of how people's memories they

836
00:39:37,569 --> 00:39:32,529
remembered the clampdown

837
00:39:42,970 --> 00:39:37,579
but at least some of them projected it

838
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:42,980
back on to the UFO yep this is one

839
00:39:51,339 --> 00:39:47,450
lesson that I think I've learned from

840
00:39:55,749 --> 00:39:51,349
ufology which is that the solve UFO

841
00:40:00,329 --> 00:39:55,759
cases can be for an hour I'm not going

842
00:40:05,229 --> 00:40:00,339
to hedge far more instructive and

843
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:05,239
interesting than the unsolved the

844
00:40:12,970 --> 00:40:07,690
unsolved ones we know nothing

845
00:40:20,110 --> 00:40:12,980
yeah the solved ones we have insights

846
00:40:25,810 --> 00:40:20,120
into how the human mind functions how

847
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:25,820
the human memory functions and this is

848
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:31,760
to me what you follow G is about now

849
00:40:42,210 --> 00:40:36,650
okay so it seems to me that you're

850
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:42,220
saying for the most part or in entirely

851
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:48,050
that UFOs are something that we create

852
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:54,430
in our minds they are a human phenomenon

853
00:41:06,430 --> 00:41:00,560
now having said that I am NOT debunking

854
00:41:10,810 --> 00:41:06,440
them because in my belief you and I have

855
00:41:14,980 --> 00:41:10,820
in these few square inches above our

856
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:14,990
eyeballs enough alienness to fill a

857
00:41:23,890 --> 00:41:18,730
universe and we do not clearly

858
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:23,900
understand what's going on in those

859
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:27,890
square inches Freud once called dreams

860
00:41:35,350 --> 00:41:31,450
the Royal Road to the unconscious I

861
00:41:36,970 --> 00:41:35,360
would probably be exaggerating but I

862
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:36,980
think there was a Glee a glimmer of

863
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:40,370
truth in the exaggeration if I said that

864
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:45,290
I consider UFOs a Royal Road into some

865
00:41:56,380 --> 00:41:51,410
of the obscure corners of the human mind

866
00:41:59,410 --> 00:41:56,390
I will even say the human soul and at

867
00:42:04,240 --> 00:41:59,420
least consider that it may be something

868
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:04,250
that transcends your individuality and

869
00:42:11,770 --> 00:42:08,960
mine well well you know the question I

870
00:42:14,590 --> 00:42:11,780
have for you right off the bat is how

871
00:42:16,420 --> 00:42:14,600
does this this way I mean I really love

872
00:42:20,590 --> 00:42:16,430
having all different types of opinions

873
00:42:24,220 --> 00:42:20,600
on what UFOs could be so I welcome your

874
00:42:29,140 --> 00:42:24,230
but I do want to question you on how you

875
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:29,150
come about this theory when you have a

876
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:31,730
mass sighting for instance several

877
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:33,290
hundred people like the Phoenix lights

878
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:35,810
will just go there for instance maybe

879
00:42:42,750 --> 00:42:37,850
even a thousands of people could have

880
00:42:45,990 --> 00:42:42,760
seen the object in the sky how would you

881
00:42:48,430 --> 00:42:46,000
how would that work in your thoughts

882
00:42:51,130 --> 00:42:48,440
okay I will answer that question with a

883
00:42:55,780 --> 00:42:51,140
question how did the miracle of the Sun

884
00:42:58,450 --> 00:42:55,790
work at Fatima in Portugal huh

885
00:43:02,860 --> 00:42:58,460
when I think it was tens of thousands

886
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:02,870
yeah of all saw the Sun dance and fall

887
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:07,250
out of the sky we know the Sun did not

888
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:13,010
fall out of the sky why did thousands of

889
00:43:21,820 --> 00:43:18,170
people share a vision of it falling out

890
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:21,830
of the sky I don't know the answer to

891
00:43:28,210 --> 00:43:25,370
that question but I think that is the

892
00:43:31,870 --> 00:43:28,220
kind of question that you follow G

893
00:43:35,740 --> 00:43:31,880
concerns with itself with not why did

894
00:43:38,980 --> 00:43:35,750
the Sun fall it didn't fall but why did

895
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:38,990
thousands of sane normal human beings

896
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:44,090
see something that did not happen they

897
00:43:51,580 --> 00:43:46,850
saw different things there - of Mary

898
00:43:54,340 --> 00:43:51,590
Virgin Mary right am i thinking about

899
00:43:57,220 --> 00:43:54,350
them right the same way but that's a

900
00:43:59,680 --> 00:43:57,230
little tricky as my friend professor

901
00:44:02,380 --> 00:43:59,690
Jeff Cry pal of Rice University has

902
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:02,390
pointed out the children who originally

903
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:06,890
saw the lady saw her as a diminutive

904
00:44:14,820 --> 00:44:10,130
beautiful lady they did not say they had

905
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:14,830
seen the Virgin Mary that was a

906
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:20,210
conventional ization imposed on their

907
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:24,710
visions by the clerical authorities

908
00:44:31,270 --> 00:44:29,690
authorities to whom they reported it so

909
00:44:33,730 --> 00:44:31,280
what did they say

910
00:44:34,540 --> 00:44:33,740
now I can imagine I don't know if

911
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:34,550
anybody's ever

912
00:44:39,940 --> 00:44:36,410
on this but I can imagine somebody

913
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:39,950
saying oh what it was a space walk what

914
00:44:46,450 --> 00:44:43,130
I propose is that the Virgin Mary and

915
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:46,460
the space woman are both conventional is

916
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:52,930
a shion's both ways of taking a

917
00:45:01,380 --> 00:44:56,450
phenomenon that comes from outside our

918
00:45:03,730 --> 00:45:01,390
categories and shoehorning it into them

919
00:45:09,450 --> 00:45:03,740
okay well let me ask you this have you

920
00:45:13,060 --> 00:45:09,460
ever personally had a UFO sighting no

921
00:45:15,370 --> 00:45:13,070
but also yes because I did see lights

922
00:45:18,070 --> 00:45:15,380
over at our my my wife and I were out

923
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:18,080
walking and I did see these very early

924
00:45:22,870 --> 00:45:20,570
eerie lights circling over the tower and

925
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:22,880
I would not have known they were Birds

926
00:45:30,490 --> 00:45:25,130
unless until Rose pointed that out to me

927
00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:30,500
I see okay and so it's really hard from

928
00:45:38,350 --> 00:45:34,640
my perspective who I have actually seen

929
00:45:41,260 --> 00:45:38,360
a UFO that I could not explain any type

930
00:45:43,150 --> 00:45:41,270
of wait now I will tell you this a UFO

931
00:45:46,330 --> 00:45:43,160
was the furthest thing from my mind

932
00:45:49,030 --> 00:45:46,340
I had when I was young I sort of was

933
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:49,040
into them well you know because there

934
00:45:55,210 --> 00:45:52,610
was a flap in my area back in the 1960s

935
00:45:58,060 --> 00:45:55,220
and when I was a little kid and so I

936
00:45:59,560 --> 00:45:58,070
remembered that and a few different TV

937
00:46:02,110 --> 00:45:59,570
shows I was interested in over the years

938
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:02,120
but I was just plain sitting in a hot

939
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:05,810
tub recovering from a surgery and this

940
00:46:12,300 --> 00:46:09,200
disc flew over me that I just couldn't

941
00:46:15,310 --> 00:46:12,310
explain no sound at all and so how would

942
00:46:17,140 --> 00:46:15,320
my brain and make that happen if it was

943
00:46:23,710 --> 00:46:17,150
like the furthest thing from my mind

944
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:23,720
I don't know okay yeah the okay I

945
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:27,440
sometimes think that if you take this

946
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:30,170
the the UFO believers on the one side

947
00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:33,050
and the debunkers on the other the

948
00:46:37,630 --> 00:46:35,150
debunkers are right about the less

949
00:46:40,330 --> 00:46:37,640
important issue and the believers is

950
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:40,340
right about the more important issue the

951
00:46:45,340 --> 00:46:42,770
bunkers are right we do not have space

952
00:46:47,380 --> 00:46:45,350
hardware flying around our scouts the

953
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:47,390
believers are right that there's a

954
00:46:55,210 --> 00:46:49,330
genuineness

955
00:46:58,930 --> 00:46:55,220
which is vital was just what the answer

956
00:47:01,810 --> 00:46:58,940
is I don't know if I may though I would

957
00:47:03,820 --> 00:47:01,820
like to give you know the my usual

958
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:03,830
answer a question with a question

959
00:47:09,340 --> 00:47:06,650
okay is that okay do you you know all

960
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:09,350
you know about the Belgian UFO yes the

961
00:47:17,950 --> 00:47:12,170
flaw that flap had started in on

962
00:47:21,420 --> 00:47:17,960
November 29th not a 1980-1989 89 right

963
00:47:26,220 --> 00:47:21,430
okay 89 and it continued with

964
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:26,230
fluctuations until I think March of 1990

965
00:47:33,130 --> 00:47:29,810
it was geographically restricted to

966
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:33,140
Belgium and what I'm about to say is not

967
00:47:38,110 --> 00:47:35,810
original with me I wish it were but it

968
00:47:42,190 --> 00:47:38,120
was discovered by my friend Eric wellit

969
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:42,200
Oh ue l le t and published in his

970
00:47:49,420 --> 00:47:47,630
wonderful book illuminations that it was

971
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:49,430
there the sightings seem to have been

972
00:47:53,260 --> 00:47:51,770
geographically restricted to Belgium

973
00:47:56,700 --> 00:47:53,270
when you got to the French or the German

974
00:47:59,680 --> 00:47:56,710
border people did not see UFOs anymore

975
00:48:04,530 --> 00:47:59,690
what there were many different types of

976
00:48:07,540 --> 00:48:04,540
UFOs but the most common one was a

977
00:48:10,420 --> 00:48:07,550
triangle this was really where the

978
00:48:12,250 --> 00:48:10,430
triangular UFO they bid it as their

979
00:48:15,310 --> 00:48:12,260
Biddle's sightings in the Hudson Valley

980
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:15,320
but it was in Belgium that's an 89 that

981
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:18,410
the triangular UFO made its mark on the

982
00:48:25,630 --> 00:48:23,210
UFO annual annals at each corner there

983
00:48:29,020 --> 00:48:25,640
was a bright white light and then a

984
00:48:31,470 --> 00:48:29,030
dimmer red light in the middle right

985
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:31,480
yeah people photograph these things

986
00:48:37,180 --> 00:48:34,250
there was one good photograph of it

987
00:48:40,270 --> 00:48:37,190
which turned out to be a hoax yeah that

988
00:48:42,700 --> 00:48:40,280
the hoax is not I can talk a little bit

989
00:48:45,190 --> 00:48:42,710
about that before when when you finish

990
00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:45,200
your story okay and I may have to

991
00:48:49,690 --> 00:48:47,990
retract my voice my story in the light

992
00:48:51,850 --> 00:48:49,700
of what you're about to say but what the

993
00:48:54,550 --> 00:48:51,860
heck we're all we were all wrong at one

994
00:48:58,510 --> 00:48:54,560
time or another in our life but apart

995
00:49:01,000 --> 00:48:58,520
from that and you you may correct me on

996
00:49:02,230 --> 00:49:01,010
that one but apart from that when people

997
00:49:04,210 --> 00:49:02,240
photographs

998
00:49:07,690 --> 00:49:04,220
there's these things they saw what they

999
00:49:09,420 --> 00:49:07,700
got on their film was either blobs or

1000
00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:09,430
nothing at all

1001
00:49:18,190 --> 00:49:13,369
so I'm supposing that by and large

1002
00:49:22,780 --> 00:49:18,200
people were seeing people were seeing

1003
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:22,790
things that were not there now what were

1004
00:49:28,540 --> 00:49:25,970
they see will bring up the ghost of Carl

1005
00:49:33,210 --> 00:49:28,550
Jung and he will tell us that they were

1006
00:49:36,250 --> 00:49:33,220
seeing quaternion EES groups of four in

1007
00:49:40,180 --> 00:49:36,260
which there are three that are identical

1008
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:40,190
at a fourth that is different along

1009
00:49:52,450 --> 00:49:44,650
comes Eric Willett and puts this in

1010
00:49:59,550 --> 00:49:52,460
historical context November 9th 1989 the

1011
00:50:02,730 --> 00:49:59,560
Berlin Wall comes down the communism

1012
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:02,740
continues more rapidly than before it

1013
00:50:09,030 --> 00:50:05,440
started a bit earlier but it continues

1014
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:09,040
crumbling in Central and Eastern Europe

1015
00:50:20,430 --> 00:50:14,450
so what people see in the sky is a dim

1016
00:50:25,450 --> 00:50:20,440
red star the symbol of communism

1017
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:25,460
surrounded and closed hemmed in by three

1018
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:31,490
white stars the symbol of NATO which had

1019
00:50:40,290 --> 00:50:35,920
then as now its headquarters in Brussels

1020
00:50:45,550 --> 00:50:40,300
if you ask me what people are seeing I

1021
00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:45,560
would say they are seeing what they know

1022
00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:49,310
to be happening around them projected

1023
00:51:00,510 --> 00:50:56,440
into the sky in symbolic form Wow

1024
00:51:06,940 --> 00:51:00,520
that that is that's an interesting

1025
00:51:13,420 --> 00:51:06,950
interesting thought and yeah as far as

1026
00:51:15,910 --> 00:51:13,430
the hoax part there has been some

1027
00:51:19,660 --> 00:51:15,920
research into that I was speaking to

1028
00:51:23,230 --> 00:51:19,670
Leslie Kane about that and she knew

1029
00:51:25,269 --> 00:51:23,240
something about I'm trying to remember

1030
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:25,279
who it was that I was trying to find out

1031
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:28,720
who it was that took the picture and

1032
00:51:35,380 --> 00:51:31,359
petite Raheen or something like that

1033
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:35,390
yeah it sounds so yeah but he was

1034
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:38,690
actually challenged to reproduce that

1035
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:41,930
and he couldn't he couldn't do it you

1036
00:51:46,299 --> 00:51:43,970
know he had he had said how he did it

1037
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:46,309
and then they said well let's see you

1038
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:47,930
redo it and there was just he just

1039
00:51:54,250 --> 00:51:50,690
absolutely couldn't do it so there

1040
00:51:56,410 --> 00:51:54,260
there's a it's still kind of one of

1041
00:51:59,309 --> 00:51:56,420
those things that you know is on the

1042
00:52:02,500 --> 00:51:59,319
fence whether it's indeed a hoax or

1043
00:52:04,180 --> 00:52:02,510
there was a some other type of reason

1044
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:04,190
and there was supposed to be some other

1045
00:52:08,259 --> 00:52:06,410
type of reason where he maybe have been

1046
00:52:09,910 --> 00:52:08,269
claiming that it had to do with money

1047
00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:09,920
that he was going to be paid for it and

1048
00:52:16,140 --> 00:52:13,730
didn't get paid for it to sell it so

1049
00:52:19,210 --> 00:52:16,150
there's some sour grapes going on there

1050
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:19,220
it's interesting so who knows about that

1051
00:52:24,670 --> 00:52:21,650
that picture I don't know what about

1052
00:52:28,180 --> 00:52:24,680
pictures that are really really good

1053
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:28,190
that have never been explained as as

1054
00:52:38,049 --> 00:52:33,680
fraud McMinnville Oregon right 1950 I

1055
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:38,059
have no idea I mean it it seems like

1056
00:52:48,970 --> 00:52:40,690
fraud is the only reasonable explanation

1057
00:52:51,940 --> 00:52:48,980
but that the everybody who met me that

1058
00:52:54,339 --> 00:52:51,950
was what was his name Paul Trent I think

1059
00:52:57,099 --> 00:52:54,349
his wife his name was right he his wife

1060
00:52:59,470 --> 00:52:57,109
regarded them as totally sincere right

1061
00:53:01,690 --> 00:52:59,480
so I don't know that there are there are

1062
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:01,700
some cases I just can't explain

1063
00:53:08,859 --> 00:53:04,930
I mean Socorro New Mexico April 24th

1064
00:53:12,279 --> 00:53:08,869
1964 I have never seen a convincing

1065
00:53:14,859 --> 00:53:12,289
explanation of that I have I have got to

1066
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:14,869
go along with Phil class that it's a

1067
00:53:22,299 --> 00:53:18,410
hoax but there's no there I can't think

1068
00:53:23,890 --> 00:53:22,309
of any other possible way of explaining

1069
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:23,900
it but there there's all sorts of

1070
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:26,930
reasons to doubt that yeah I mean Lonnie

1071
00:53:31,180 --> 00:53:29,210
Zamora was said to be one of the best

1072
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:31,190
way

1073
00:53:36,700 --> 00:53:34,610
you know and Ray Stanford who you know

1074
00:53:39,070 --> 00:53:36,710
investigated that case wrote the book

1075
00:53:42,940 --> 00:53:39,080
he's definitely listening to this show

1076
00:53:46,990 --> 00:53:42,950
he might even want to call in later so

1077
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:47,000
that to me is you know it has been said

1078
00:53:55,150 --> 00:53:51,730
as one of the you know top ten you know

1079
00:53:58,660 --> 00:53:55,160
interesting UFO cases to say the least

1080
00:54:00,730 --> 00:53:58,670
I mean III would accept classes view

1081
00:54:03,270 --> 00:54:00,740
just for the want of any better

1082
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:03,280
alternative but I think it stinks

1083
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:06,710
right so why do you find it now I do

1084
00:54:12,250 --> 00:54:09,770
want to go into how the religion you

1085
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:12,260
know the connection and all that in a

1086
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:15,170
little bit here but why do you find it

1087
00:54:23,010 --> 00:54:18,890
so impossible after all these years that

1088
00:54:28,540 --> 00:54:23,020
we could be visited by an outside

1089
00:54:31,780 --> 00:54:28,550
intelligence as Ezekiel quotes the

1090
00:54:36,810 --> 00:54:31,790
people he disapproves of as saying the

1091
00:54:43,150 --> 00:54:36,820
day's grow long and every vision famis

1092
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:43,160
okay I remember in the 1960s we were all

1093
00:54:52,990 --> 00:54:48,370
making confident predictions that soon

1094
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:53,000
human life would be transformed by these

1095
00:54:59,140 --> 00:54:56,930
visitations the earliest the first UFO

1096
00:55:01,900 --> 00:54:59,150
book to be published was Donald Kehoe's

1097
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:01,910
flying saucers are real right nineteen

1098
00:55:08,740 --> 00:55:04,910
fifty Pio describes in that book how he

1099
00:55:11,020 --> 00:55:08,750
takes a plane and he thinks everyone's

1100
00:55:14,220 --> 00:55:11,030
life or they don't know it but the life

1101
00:55:17,230 --> 00:55:14,230
of everyone on this plane is going to be

1102
00:55:20,020 --> 00:55:17,240
transformed now I would be very

1103
00:55:24,190 --> 00:55:20,030
surprised if any of the people Kehoe

1104
00:55:27,550 --> 00:55:24,200
flew with are still alive maybe one or

1105
00:55:32,490 --> 00:55:27,560
two but they've lived their lives I

1106
00:55:35,410 --> 00:55:32,500
won't say uneventful II but the

1107
00:55:36,310 --> 00:55:35,420
extraterrestrial visitations had no

1108
00:55:42,250 --> 00:55:36,320
impact

1109
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:42,260
year after year went by and there was

1110
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:43,010
not the

1111
00:55:52,270 --> 00:55:48,640
slightest bump on the seismograph of

1112
00:55:57,100 --> 00:55:52,280
history and so people have had to come

1113
00:55:59,230 --> 00:55:57,110
up with counter histories in which yeah

1114
00:56:02,560 --> 00:55:59,240
you know you know what I'm talking about

1115
00:56:04,150 --> 00:56:02,570
yeah but um you know I've said that you

1116
00:56:05,620 --> 00:56:04,160
know what I don't expect to find out

1117
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:05,630
what these things are in my lifetime

1118
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:07,490
I've said that you know a number of

1119
00:56:14,250 --> 00:56:11,410
times but I do think a lot of people

1120
00:56:18,730 --> 00:56:14,260
sort of what you're talking about here

1121
00:56:20,380 --> 00:56:18,740
did expect and do expect to find out and

1122
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:20,390
and some people think you know

1123
00:56:26,980 --> 00:56:24,410
relatively soon but let's just devil's

1124
00:56:27,940 --> 00:56:26,990
advocate here let's just say we are

1125
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:27,950
being visited

1126
00:56:31,780 --> 00:56:30,290
I'm not saying by an alien from

1127
00:56:36,310 --> 00:56:31,790
somewhere else but we're being visited

1128
00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:36,320
by something if that something was

1129
00:56:41,890 --> 00:56:38,330
indeed actually physical and actually

1130
00:56:45,130 --> 00:56:41,900
here but didn't want us to it just

1131
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:45,140
wanted to observe only and they were

1132
00:56:50,260 --> 00:56:47,210
intelligent enough to be able to get

1133
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:50,270
away with that do you think that is even

1134
00:56:56,050 --> 00:56:52,880
possible you just absolutely rule it out

1135
00:56:57,490 --> 00:56:56,060
I think it's possible and I remember

1136
00:57:02,080 --> 00:56:57,500
when I was I

1137
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:02,090
III I was as a teenager I had I had to

1138
00:57:05,590 --> 00:57:03,410
come up with answers to all the

1139
00:57:07,180 --> 00:57:05,600
objections of me the you know the old

1140
00:57:10,090 --> 00:57:07,190
one why don't they land on the White

1141
00:57:12,250 --> 00:57:10,100
House lawn and the answer I gave is we

1142
00:57:14,530 --> 00:57:12,260
can't put ourselves in there ourselves

1143
00:57:15,940 --> 00:57:14,540
in their place and ask what we would do

1144
00:57:19,780 --> 00:57:15,950
because we don't know what their place

1145
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:19,790
is now it took years before I realize

1146
00:57:26,860 --> 00:57:23,050
that that robbed the extra-terrestrial

1147
00:57:30,010 --> 00:57:26,870
hypothesis of whatever explanatory power

1148
00:57:33,550 --> 00:57:30,020
it might have because if there is

1149
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:33,560
absence from outer space and there is

1150
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:37,930
absolutely nothing we can say about them

1151
00:57:45,100 --> 00:57:40,880
then let's just say we don't know what

1152
00:57:45,910 --> 00:57:45,110
the hell we get the same it has the same

1153
00:57:47,950 --> 00:57:45,920
result

1154
00:57:49,630 --> 00:57:47,960
the advantage of saying there are their

1155
00:57:52,050 --> 00:57:49,640
visitors from outer space is that we

1156
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:52,060
were able to start making predictions

1157
00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:55,730
they're there they're there they're

1158
00:57:59,950 --> 00:57:56,900
casing us out

1159
00:58:03,759 --> 00:57:59,960
maybe to save us from ourselves

1160
00:58:06,670 --> 00:58:03,769
maybe to invade us that was incidentally

1161
00:58:08,579 --> 00:58:06,680
my belief that they were hostile they

1162
00:58:14,620 --> 00:58:08,589
were here to invade us

1163
00:58:19,059 --> 00:58:14,630
but I knew perfectly well that I was not

1164
00:58:24,220 --> 00:58:19,069
one thousandth is afraid of the looming

1165
00:58:27,009 --> 00:58:24,230
L UFO invasion as I was up if I ever got

1166
00:58:31,599 --> 00:58:27,019
the nerve to go up to a girl and ask her

1167
00:58:35,470 --> 00:58:31,609
out of hearing from her go out with you

1168
00:58:38,980 --> 00:58:35,480
you want me to go out with you ha ha ha

1169
00:58:43,359 --> 00:58:38,990
ha and the next day or the whole school

1170
00:58:45,700 --> 00:58:43,369
knows that ok that was what scared me

1171
00:58:52,239 --> 00:58:45,710
the UFOs didn't

1172
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:52,249
so did I really believe or did I find

1173
00:59:00,730 --> 00:58:57,490
the UFOs as I think now looking back a

1174
00:59:05,249 --> 00:59:00,740
convenient mirror for the genuinely

1175
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:05,259
terrifying invasion that was coming of

1176
00:59:17,410 --> 00:59:09,920
my mother's weakening art into our

1177
00:59:23,650 --> 00:59:17,420
household well so our youth how does

1178
00:59:25,660 --> 00:59:23,660
this um I I'm getting that you're you're

1179
00:59:32,130 --> 00:59:25,670
thinking that it's more of a belief

1180
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:32,140
system belief and experience people have

1181
00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:35,930
experiences the people at Fatima had an

1182
00:59:42,970 --> 00:59:40,150
experience I what I won't talk about the

1183
00:59:45,249 --> 00:59:42,980
the Phoenix lights because it seems to

1184
00:59:47,940 --> 00:59:45,259
me that it's too undramatic

1185
00:59:50,799 --> 00:59:47,950
excited to really interest me but take

1186
00:59:53,460 --> 00:59:50,809
to take the Reverend William buzzkill

1187
00:59:58,539 --> 00:59:53,470
you know and pop for Papua New Guinea in

1188
01:00:03,009 --> 00:59:58,549
June 1959 he and his parishioners had an

1189
01:00:06,130 --> 01:00:03,019
experience it cannot have been of

1190
01:00:08,410 --> 01:00:06,140
extraterrestrial beings then why if

1191
01:00:10,420 --> 01:00:08,420
there is why did they look so identical

1192
01:00:14,470 --> 01:00:10,430
to humans

1193
01:00:18,430 --> 01:00:14,480
he thought they were humans in fact what

1194
01:00:20,829 --> 01:00:18,440
did they see well in one in one way I

1195
01:00:23,890 --> 01:00:20,839
think I think I know the answer I mean

1196
01:00:28,660 --> 01:00:23,900
Marty caught Meyer who is I would say

1197
01:00:29,589 --> 01:00:28,670
one of the finest ufologists writing and

1198
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:29,599
speaking

1199
01:00:36,180 --> 01:00:31,970
Marty caught Meyer has plotted the

1200
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:36,190
positions of the UFOs that Gil and his

1201
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:38,930
parishioners saw and find that they

1202
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:40,970
correspond to those of exceptionally

1203
01:00:47,799 --> 01:00:44,960
bright stars and climates and the fact

1204
01:00:52,930 --> 01:00:47,809
that they tended to come and go as

1205
01:00:55,059 --> 01:00:52,940
clouds thickened and and lightened would

1206
01:01:00,329 --> 01:00:55,069
confirm that they were that they were

1207
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:00,339
stars and planets but why did why did

1208
01:01:11,380 --> 01:01:07,250
multiple people see them close up with

1209
01:01:12,790 --> 01:01:11,390
men standing on their decks right and

1210
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:12,800
then there was an interaction with a

1211
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:18,650
flashlight yeah so why did that happen

1212
01:01:28,690 --> 01:01:21,890
so your so this is another question

1213
01:01:30,819 --> 01:01:28,700
thing yeah I I mean I I okay I try have

1214
01:01:33,549 --> 01:01:30,829
more questions than answers I always did

1215
01:01:39,809 --> 01:01:33,559
even when I was doing Judaic Studies I

1216
01:01:47,020 --> 01:01:43,410
about seven years ago I met a charming

1217
01:01:49,450 --> 01:01:47,030
librarian in Western North Carolina a

1218
01:01:51,940 --> 01:01:49,460
very charming very intelligent woman and

1219
01:01:54,849 --> 01:01:51,950
in their late 50s though she looked much

1220
01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:54,859
younger and she talked to me about the

1221
01:02:01,000 --> 01:01:57,680
UFO aliens she saw through her windows

1222
01:02:04,359 --> 01:02:01,010
on her front lawn and she said to me I

1223
01:02:10,089 --> 01:02:04,369
know they weren't really there

1224
01:02:13,210 --> 01:02:10,099
but I did see them hmm and I hold on to

1225
01:02:17,020 --> 01:02:13,220
both halves of those statements they

1226
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:17,030
weren't really there she did see them

1227
01:02:23,870 --> 01:02:22,490
the people in Belgium saw what through a

1228
01:02:27,130 --> 01:02:23,880
dim red

1229
01:02:29,529 --> 01:02:27,140
light surrounded by three bright white

1230
01:02:33,740 --> 01:02:29,539
ones

1231
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:33,750
what is this capacity we have to see

1232
01:02:39,289 --> 01:02:34,970
these things

1233
01:02:46,039 --> 01:02:39,299
the people at Fatima saw the Sun fall to

1234
01:02:49,249 --> 01:02:46,049
earth what's going on here but okay

1235
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:49,259
again though there were two police

1236
01:02:55,039 --> 01:02:52,799
officers that saw one of no I'm sorry I

1237
01:03:00,109 --> 01:02:55,049
guess there were two police officers but

1238
01:03:02,900 --> 01:03:00,119
the one that was more noted was a police

1239
01:03:06,380 --> 01:03:02,910
officer off duty and his wife that both

1240
01:03:08,509 --> 01:03:06,390
saw the triangle in Belgium they watched

1241
01:03:12,980 --> 01:03:08,519
it go over a field and they're watching

1242
01:03:14,930 --> 01:03:12,990
it together and and then you know they

1243
01:03:16,670 --> 01:03:14,940
both talked about it it's the same thing

1244
01:03:19,130 --> 01:03:16,680
they both saw the same thing how does

1245
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:19,140
how does that happen were two people

1246
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:20,970
together or seeing exactly the same

1247
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:21,450
thing

1248
01:03:27,950 --> 01:03:23,730
and I have more there's many more cases

1249
01:03:32,650 --> 01:03:27,960
like that the only answer I can give is

1250
01:03:37,460 --> 01:03:32,660
that there's communication between them

1251
01:03:40,370 --> 01:03:37,470
not necessarily verb this something of

1252
01:03:44,150 --> 01:03:40,380
the sort is what I think happened with

1253
01:03:47,150 --> 01:03:44,160
the Reverend William Booth Gil and his

1254
01:03:49,329 --> 01:03:47,160
parishioners that their mother must I

1255
01:03:53,539 --> 01:03:49,339
hate you see that do you see that and

1256
01:03:58,819 --> 01:03:53,549
people communicate in the most subtle

1257
01:04:04,490 --> 01:03:58,829
ways I would not III don't really

1258
01:04:06,980 --> 01:04:04,500
believe in telepathy but if you wanted

1259
01:04:08,809 --> 01:04:06,990
to say that there's some I don't know I

1260
01:04:11,900 --> 01:04:08,819
don't think we need to get to telepathy

1261
01:04:16,039 --> 01:04:11,910
I prefer to I prefer to go with a bunch

1262
01:04:20,349 --> 01:04:16,049
of more economical explanations I think

1263
01:04:25,329 --> 01:04:20,359
there must be some sort of unconscious

1264
01:04:33,430 --> 01:04:25,339
communication some sort of triggering in

1265
01:04:36,049 --> 01:04:33,440
me for that comes from the other person

1266
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:36,059
we could talk in this connection by the

1267
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:42,590
okay let's let's hear your thoughts and

1268
01:04:45,980 --> 01:04:44,610
I did want to that was one of the topics

1269
01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:45,990
I was going to bring up what your

1270
01:04:51,290 --> 01:04:48,210
thoughts were on all the people that are

1271
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:51,300
claiming that they're being abducted but

1272
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:53,010
let's talk first of all about Betty and

1273
01:04:59,510 --> 01:04:56,010
Barney Hill your thoughts on that okay

1274
01:05:04,250 --> 01:04:59,520
first of all I have been quite persuaded

1275
01:05:08,300 --> 01:05:04,260
by a blog post by one James McDonald who

1276
01:05:10,130 --> 01:05:08,310
followed the road that Betty and Barney

1277
01:05:12,860 --> 01:05:10,140
I know what I know the particular one

1278
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:12,870
you're talking about yes the light on

1279
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:15,330
the mountain that had been there since

1280
01:05:20,300 --> 01:05:17,970
the 50s and all that yes right and then

1281
01:05:23,870 --> 01:05:20,310
was torn down as I found out from

1282
01:05:34,190 --> 01:05:23,880
googling the following year after McGraw

1283
01:05:41,060 --> 01:05:34,200
is drip yet a light on a hill does not

1284
01:05:47,350 --> 01:05:41,070
appear as a disc with faces behind the

1285
01:05:50,870 --> 01:05:47,360
portal it does not create such terror in

1286
01:05:54,830 --> 01:05:50,880
one of the experiences that the

1287
01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:54,840
skeptical psychiatrist is afraid that

1288
01:06:02,120 --> 01:05:56,910
he's going to throw himself out the

1289
01:06:04,310 --> 01:06:02,130
window so there's something I have to

1290
01:06:08,180 --> 01:06:04,320
say well the way I would put it and I

1291
01:06:10,370 --> 01:06:08,190
have put it in my blogs is to say that

1292
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:10,380
the light that the hill saw was this

1293
01:06:16,670 --> 01:06:13,410
light on the mountain the UFO was not a

1294
01:06:23,180 --> 01:06:16,680
light on the map the UFO came from

1295
01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:23,190
within now if you can if you ask how did

1296
01:06:30,260 --> 01:06:27,510
Barney Hill come to and how did his then

1297
01:06:32,270 --> 01:06:30,270
how did his family get to this country I

1298
01:06:34,310 --> 01:06:32,280
don't know the answer but I think I can

1299
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:34,320
get a pretty good guess they were

1300
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:37,130
abducted to the middle of the night and

1301
01:06:45,500 --> 01:06:41,850
carried on to an alien ship you're

1302
01:06:49,010 --> 01:06:45,510
talking about his forefathers slave the

1303
01:06:51,750 --> 01:06:49,020
slave yeah and I'm not when I talk about

1304
01:06:55,050 --> 01:06:51,760
an alien ship you know I'm not

1305
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:55,060
saturating that people writing about the

1306
01:07:01,020 --> 01:06:58,720
slave trade in the 18th century spoke

1307
01:07:04,730 --> 01:07:01,030
about what they call the great machine

1308
01:07:07,890 --> 01:07:04,740
of the slave ship and about the slave

1309
01:07:10,890 --> 01:07:07,900
seeing sites on it he can't possibly

1310
01:07:15,450 --> 01:07:10,900
begin to understand that not the slave

1311
01:07:19,950 --> 01:07:15,460
the abductee okay and there are other

1312
01:07:23,930 --> 01:07:19,960
details of what Barney Hill what Barney

1313
01:07:28,290 --> 01:07:23,940
and Betty remembered that seemed to fit

1314
01:07:33,750 --> 01:07:28,300
the pattern of these historic abductions

1315
01:07:36,930 --> 01:07:33,760
ah Betty Hugh you remember how the UFO

1316
01:07:38,820 --> 01:07:36,940
beings try to get her teeth out well I

1317
01:07:41,730 --> 01:07:38,830
don't remember that in particular I know

1318
01:07:43,830 --> 01:07:41,740
that they they there was a big needle

1319
01:07:47,100 --> 01:07:43,840
and all that yeah but I don't remember

1320
01:07:48,900 --> 01:07:47,110
that in particular but I mean the needle

1321
01:07:51,210 --> 01:07:48,910
is interesting for other reasons I think

1322
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:51,220
this is an attempt to kill the fetus

1323
01:07:59,730 --> 01:07:57,610
that the black man is put inside him and

1324
01:08:01,800 --> 01:07:59,740
that was a psychological situation

1325
01:08:04,350 --> 01:08:01,810
you're thinking of I think so these

1326
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:04,360
people these people were I'm going to

1327
01:08:09,870 --> 01:08:06,010
use the word obsessed but it's totally

1328
01:08:13,790 --> 01:08:09,880
unfair because these people with immense

1329
01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:13,800
courage fell in love and married and

1330
01:08:21,510 --> 01:08:17,759
lived as an interracial couple in early

1331
01:08:24,990 --> 01:08:21,520
1960s New England they took their trip

1332
01:08:27,930 --> 01:08:25,000
hardly more than six years after Emmett

1333
01:08:30,710 --> 01:08:27,940
Till was lynched in Mississippi for

1334
01:08:34,099 --> 01:08:30,720
supposedly making lewd remarks

1335
01:08:39,590 --> 01:08:34,109
suggestive remarks to a white woman so

1336
01:08:45,349 --> 01:08:39,600
naturally these people are haunted by

1337
01:08:48,059 --> 01:08:45,359
the path the racial path of America and

1338
01:08:51,090 --> 01:08:48,069
Barney actually explains the things he

1339
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:51,100
sees he see he looks through the windows

1340
01:08:59,910 --> 01:08:57,250
of the UFO he sees a redheaded Irish now

1341
01:09:01,740 --> 01:08:59,920
go tell me that a spaceship from another

1342
01:09:04,890 --> 01:09:01,750
galaxy is going to have a redheaded

1343
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:04,900
Irishman on it but when asked why a

1344
01:09:08,220 --> 01:09:05,650
redheaded

1345
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:08,230
Irishman Barney knows Irish people

1346
01:09:14,249 --> 01:09:11,890
usually don't like me gross so when I

1347
01:09:18,419 --> 01:09:14,259
find an Irish person who is friendly I

1348
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:18,429
will try to be friendly but then the the

1349
01:09:28,610 --> 01:09:21,250
friendly Irishman disappears and is

1350
01:09:31,849 --> 01:09:28,620
replaced by a black jacketed Nazi also

1351
01:09:37,019 --> 01:09:31,859
inappropriate for an intergalactic

1352
01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:37,029
spaceship but totally inappropriate for

1353
01:09:46,979 --> 01:09:42,880
a well-read sensitive humane man who is

1354
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:46,989
wrestling with the manifold humiliations

1355
01:09:54,780 --> 01:09:51,370
of being the black in early 60s America

1356
01:09:58,189 --> 01:09:54,790
being married to a white woman and who

1357
01:10:02,540 --> 01:09:58,199
also in my opinion carries with him

1358
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:02,550
collective memories of what befell his

1359
01:10:08,580 --> 01:10:05,770
ancestors and if you want to press me on

1360
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:08,590
what I mean by collective memory I will

1361
01:10:14,910 --> 01:10:11,650
answer okay well I feel like I have to

1362
01:10:17,790 --> 01:10:14,920
but uh and then there's some other

1363
01:10:20,189 --> 01:10:17,800
questions I have for you go ahead okay

1364
01:10:23,100 --> 01:10:20,199
that therapists working with the

1365
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:23,110
children of Holocaust survivors have

1366
01:10:30,780 --> 01:10:26,170
repeatedly come across the phenomenon

1367
01:10:33,870 --> 01:10:30,790
that the experience of the parents is in

1368
01:10:38,100 --> 01:10:33,880
some way or another reenacted by the

1369
01:10:41,700 --> 01:10:38,110
child even if the child there was never

1370
01:10:45,689 --> 01:10:41,710
an explicit narrative of there is

1371
01:10:51,330 --> 01:10:45,699
something in the interactions that

1372
01:10:55,649 --> 01:10:51,340
conveys to the child more vividly than a

1373
01:10:58,950 --> 01:10:55,659
narration could what the parent

1374
01:11:02,610 --> 01:10:58,960
underwent and the child identifies with

1375
01:11:04,970 --> 01:11:02,620
it and lives through it now granted we

1376
01:11:09,149 --> 01:11:04,980
are talking here about one generation

1377
01:11:12,510 --> 01:11:09,159
but I'm willing to speculate that it can

1378
01:11:15,629 --> 01:11:12,520
endure through the generation mostly

1379
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:15,639
generational yeah and I would add that

1380
01:11:25,700 --> 01:11:19,450
it is now being increasingly accepted

1381
01:11:31,020 --> 01:11:25,710
that there is epigenetic transmission of

1382
01:11:34,860 --> 01:11:31,030
the suffering of the ancestors in the

1383
01:11:42,450 --> 01:11:34,870
descendants and we're moving closer and

1384
01:11:45,330 --> 01:11:42,460
closer to Carl Jung okay so I you know

1385
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:45,340
there's other types I'm sure you're very

1386
01:11:53,370 --> 01:11:49,930
aware there's radar information there's

1387
01:11:55,260 --> 01:11:53,380
there's other sightings that are more

1388
01:11:56,610 --> 01:11:55,270
involved and one of them I've told a

1389
01:11:59,250 --> 01:11:56,620
number of times on this show probably

1390
01:12:01,980 --> 01:11:59,260
three or four times and that is it's

1391
01:12:05,220 --> 01:12:01,990
basically my girlfriend's father was

1392
01:12:07,590 --> 01:12:05,230
driving I go to Russia I've been to

1393
01:12:09,420 --> 01:12:07,600
Russia several times so about ten years

1394
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:09,430
ago who's driving through a pass and

1395
01:12:14,520 --> 01:12:11,530
Russia and traffic is always a nightmare

1396
01:12:16,770 --> 01:12:14,530
their cars in front of them cars behind

1397
01:12:18,900 --> 01:12:16,780
him and every single car stalled

1398
01:12:20,250 --> 01:12:18,910
they all died they had to pull over to

1399
01:12:22,290 --> 01:12:20,260
the side of the road people were lifting

1400
01:12:23,640 --> 01:12:22,300
up their hoods looking at their engines

1401
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:23,650
trying to figure out what was going on

1402
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:24,850
and all of a sudden this cigar-shaped

1403
01:12:30,540 --> 01:12:28,210
craft floated right over them with

1404
01:12:31,830 --> 01:12:30,550
portholes and they're all staring at it

1405
01:12:34,170 --> 01:12:31,840
they're all like oh my god you know

1406
01:12:35,910 --> 01:12:34,180
what's that and then it floated away and

1407
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:35,920
then someone eventually jumped in one of

1408
01:12:39,420 --> 01:12:37,510
the cars and it started and all the cars

1409
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:39,430
started up in the all drove away now

1410
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:43,410
there's a number of cases where and my

1411
01:12:48,410 --> 01:12:46,210
girlfriend's father absolutely was not

1412
01:12:50,850 --> 01:12:48,420
into UFOs it just happened to him

1413
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:50,860
there's a number of cases where there

1414
01:12:55,050 --> 01:12:52,930
are stalls and there are things that

1415
01:12:58,760 --> 01:12:55,060
happen similar to that how would you

1416
01:13:01,980 --> 01:12:58,770
explain that coming out of the psyche I

1417
01:13:04,170 --> 01:13:01,990
don't know I was I was thinking you'd

1418
01:13:07,170 --> 01:13:04,180
probably say that yeah it would

1419
01:13:10,050 --> 01:13:07,180
certainly add er but now okay

1420
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:10,060
yeah given with one hand but I'm going

1421
01:13:16,110 --> 01:13:12,640
to try to take back with you okay and

1422
01:13:19,710 --> 01:13:16,120
that is that the cigar shaped object

1423
01:13:21,540 --> 01:13:19,720
with the portals was also seen in 1968

1424
01:13:25,500 --> 01:13:21,550
with the zond

1425
01:13:29,460 --> 01:13:25,510
for re-entry you know that the Soviet

1426
01:13:32,220 --> 01:13:29,470
satellites on for it was sent up and it

1427
01:13:33,209 --> 01:13:32,230
apparently was a major fiasco that it

1428
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:33,219
did not go in

1429
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:35,650
orbán as it should have it reinterred

1430
01:13:41,700 --> 01:13:38,530
the Earth's atmosphere and there were

1431
01:13:45,149 --> 01:13:41,710
huge numbers of UFO sightings that night

1432
01:13:47,850 --> 01:13:45,159
including cigar shaped objects with

1433
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:47,860
portholes people convinced that it was

1434
01:13:53,819 --> 01:13:50,530
so close that I could have almost

1435
01:13:56,069 --> 01:13:53,829
reached out and touched it one woman and

1436
01:14:00,089 --> 01:13:56,079
this is what I find absolutely

1437
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:00,099
fascinating she described how her dog

1438
01:14:09,270 --> 01:14:05,489
was terrified and went hiding whimpering

1439
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:09,280
why was it the sight of the thing in the

1440
01:14:15,660 --> 01:14:12,610
sky or did the dog pick up and there are

1441
01:14:19,709 --> 01:14:15,670
airs at least one other case of this did

1442
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:19,719
the dog pick up something about his

1443
01:14:26,790 --> 01:14:24,010
mistresses something strange happening

1444
01:14:30,810 --> 01:14:26,800
to his mistress she then described how

1445
01:14:33,450 --> 01:14:30,820
she had to lie down and sleep she

1446
01:14:35,689 --> 01:14:33,460
couldn't keep her eyes open even though

1447
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:35,699
she gotten a good night's rest

1448
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:39,760
this woman was a PhD and a science

1449
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:44,530
teacher and at a high school we are not

1450
01:14:52,140 --> 01:14:47,010
dealing here with a lightweight

1451
01:14:55,589 --> 01:14:52,150
something about that light in the sky

1452
01:14:59,310 --> 01:14:55,599
that we know what it was triggered

1453
01:15:02,640 --> 01:14:59,320
reactions in her now who will this

1454
01:15:05,759 --> 01:15:02,650
explain the stalling cars it seems to me

1455
01:15:08,509 --> 01:15:05,769
with very great difficulty because I'm

1456
01:15:12,350 --> 01:15:08,519
prepared to say that somebody's seen

1457
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:12,360
something bizarre in the sky might

1458
01:15:20,609 --> 01:15:16,570
nervously stall his or her car yeah but

1459
01:15:25,700 --> 01:15:20,619
it happened after let's do it yeah you

1460
01:15:30,029 --> 01:15:25,710
know all right so let's let's get into

1461
01:15:34,020 --> 01:15:30,039
how there is how this ties into religion

1462
01:15:37,169 --> 01:15:34,030
or does it at all do the Fatima's

1463
01:15:41,129 --> 01:15:37,179
already given you your answer hmm the

1464
01:15:46,379 --> 01:15:41,139
what we that what the UFO represents to

1465
01:15:47,130 --> 01:15:46,389
me is a religious vision a UFO sighting

1466
01:15:56,970 --> 01:15:47,140
is a

1467
01:16:00,140 --> 01:15:56,980
religious doctrine which transmits I was

1468
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:00,150
I'm gonna get somebody is the word myth

1469
01:16:07,290 --> 01:16:03,850
but you must understand I am using myth

1470
01:16:12,470 --> 01:16:07,300
in the Union sense not of something

1471
01:16:18,480 --> 01:16:12,480
false but of something profoundly true a

1472
01:16:24,210 --> 01:16:18,490
kind of collective dream of the Society

1473
01:16:28,670 --> 01:16:24,220
of the species so yet in those respects

1474
01:16:36,270 --> 01:16:28,680
I see the UFO as a profoundly religious

1475
01:16:39,440 --> 01:16:36,280
phenomenon to be to be explored by those

1476
01:16:43,890 --> 01:16:39,450
of us professional or amateur or anyone

1477
01:16:47,670 --> 01:16:43,900
who cares about religion and what it

1478
01:16:50,700 --> 01:16:47,680
means for human beings well let's let's

1479
01:16:55,310 --> 01:16:50,710
explore a little bit what you're I mean

1480
01:16:59,610 --> 01:16:55,320
you it was your study your professor of

1481
01:17:04,190 --> 01:16:59,620
religion what is religion and and why

1482
01:17:08,310 --> 01:17:04,200
why the connection oh boy

1483
01:17:10,710 --> 01:17:08,320
okay you know you already know but and

1484
01:17:12,810 --> 01:17:10,720
that is my answer but I I need to I need

1485
01:17:15,750 --> 01:17:12,820
to refine that because I'm not alone in

1486
01:17:18,210 --> 01:17:15,760
my ignorance there I mean people have

1487
01:17:20,030 --> 01:17:18,220
been arguing for for centuries about

1488
01:17:27,180 --> 01:17:20,040
what religion well maybe not centuries

1489
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:27,190
many decades about what religion is for

1490
01:17:36,960 --> 01:17:32,010
the purposes of talking about UFOs I

1491
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:36,970
would say it is the direct experience

1492
01:17:49,670 --> 01:17:41,970
and the transmission of narratives about

1493
01:17:53,630 --> 01:17:49,680
a transcendent world just beyond ours

1494
01:17:57,420 --> 01:17:53,640
intersecting with ours yet normally

1495
01:17:59,340 --> 01:17:57,430
inaccessible to office now when I say

1496
01:18:01,020 --> 01:17:59,350
that all sorts of religion professors

1497
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:01,030
are going going

1498
01:18:05,180 --> 01:18:03,370
start saying no no no you've got to talk

1499
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:05,190
about ritual you've got to talk about

1500
01:18:11,130 --> 01:18:08,890
religious institutions and in these

1501
01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:11,140
respects I don't think UFOs are very

1502
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:14,410
religious I don't think there's that

1503
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:15,850
well I guess you've got the Church of

1504
01:18:20,880 --> 01:18:18,490
the right aliens or something like that

1505
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:20,890
but by and large I don't think you

1506
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:23,890
follow jizz is is a church and I mean

1507
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:26,170
when it's called a a cult that's simply

1508
01:18:36,330 --> 01:18:33,370
a a bit of verbal abuse so I'm going to

1509
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:36,340
focus on that aspect of religion that

1510
01:18:45,870 --> 01:18:41,410
deals with the intersection between our

1511
01:18:48,180 --> 01:18:45,880
world and the transcendent but heck I

1512
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:48,190
might be able to make a case that that's

1513
01:18:54,150 --> 01:18:51,730
where the crux of religion is and all

1514
01:19:00,590 --> 01:18:54,160
the churches and all the rituals and all

1515
01:19:04,830 --> 01:19:00,600
the holidays are ways of celebrating

1516
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:04,840
conventional izing and memorializing

1517
01:19:17,100 --> 01:19:12,610
that interesting now people I heard you

1518
01:19:19,320 --> 01:19:17,110
say on another interview that you know

1519
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:19,330
religion a lot of religion of what

1520
01:19:23,730 --> 01:19:21,850
religion is is because we're an

1521
01:19:29,970 --> 01:19:23,740
intelligence that knows we're going to

1522
01:19:33,570 --> 01:19:29,980
die yes and how does that fit in to the

1523
01:19:36,330 --> 01:19:33,580
UFO topic how does that shoehorn into

1524
01:19:38,490 --> 01:19:36,340
the whole thing well first of all you

1525
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:38,500
already know from what I've said about

1526
01:19:48,750 --> 01:19:44,170
my mother yes that I that what UFOs the

1527
01:19:51,530 --> 01:19:48,760
word of me was a Perseus mirror in which

1528
01:19:56,750 --> 01:19:51,540
I could look at the Medusa of death and

1529
01:19:59,910 --> 01:19:56,760
not turn to stone but that was just me

1530
01:20:02,370 --> 01:19:59,920
but I would ask you to consider and I'm

1531
01:20:04,340 --> 01:20:02,380
going a lot of people have been very

1532
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:04,350
skeptical of this and with good reason

1533
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:09,970
but consider there is one UFO story that

1534
01:20:14,970 --> 01:20:12,970
everybody in this country and possibly

1535
01:20:17,370 --> 01:20:14,980
the world knows

1536
01:20:21,200 --> 01:20:17,380
even if they don't know any other run

1537
01:20:27,690 --> 01:20:21,210
yeah mm-hmm and what is Roswell about

1538
01:20:29,610 --> 01:20:27,700
but deaf people religious studies

1539
01:20:30,510 --> 01:20:29,620
scholars occasionally have written about

1540
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:30,520
Roswell

1541
01:20:35,190 --> 01:20:32,530
there was an anthropologist some

1542
01:20:39,450 --> 01:20:35,200
anthropologists at Brandeis who

1543
01:20:41,370 --> 01:20:39,460
published a book in 1997 UFO crash at

1544
01:20:43,530 --> 01:20:41,380
Roswell they think they know what it's

1545
01:20:49,850 --> 01:20:43,540
all about you know it's God's from the

1546
01:20:54,020 --> 01:20:49,860
sky but how many of the classic myths

1547
01:21:00,450 --> 01:20:54,030
have the gods from the sky

1548
01:21:03,450 --> 01:21:00,460
childlike vulnerable and dead as I once

1549
01:21:11,420 --> 01:21:03,460
wrote the Greeks imagined that gods were

1550
01:21:14,850 --> 01:21:11,430
immortal the ufologists know better Wow

1551
01:21:18,180 --> 01:21:14,860
all right let me ask you this - so you

1552
01:21:22,110 --> 01:21:18,190
were investigating UFOs all the way back

1553
01:21:26,970 --> 01:21:22,120
in the 60s young and all that now can

1554
01:21:29,790 --> 01:21:26,980
you talk about how it transpired as time

1555
01:21:32,700 --> 01:21:29,800
went on into your into what your beliefs

1556
01:21:33,570 --> 01:21:32,710
are now how did that all prog how did

1557
01:21:36,870 --> 01:21:33,580
that progress

1558
01:21:39,450 --> 01:21:36,880
well I retired from ufology the way many

1559
01:21:44,370 --> 01:21:39,460
of us teen ufologists did I went to

1560
01:21:45,810 --> 01:21:44,380
college okay and and it's what you just

1561
01:21:49,980 --> 01:21:45,820
asked is a really really good question

1562
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:49,990
I've described that I had the reality of

1563
01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:52,690
UFOs came to me as a sudden epiphany

1564
01:22:01,260 --> 01:21:57,610
when I read grey Barker the belief faded

1565
01:22:04,920 --> 01:22:01,270
very slowly and interest faded before

1566
01:22:07,140 --> 01:22:04,930
the belief day I remembered does the

1567
01:22:10,020 --> 01:22:07,150
name Isabel Davis mean anything to you

1568
01:22:12,810 --> 01:22:10,030
no she wrote she she was co-author I

1569
01:22:16,260 --> 01:22:12,820
think of a monograph on the the Kelly

1570
01:22:20,490 --> 01:22:16,270
Hopkinsville 55 she was a wonderful

1571
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:20,500
peppery lady in the in her 60s back in

1572
01:22:26,730 --> 01:22:22,690
the 60s she lived in Greenwich Village I

1573
01:22:28,710 --> 01:22:26,740
used to I used to visit her occasionally

1574
01:22:32,010 --> 01:22:28,720
and I remember

1575
01:22:34,350 --> 01:22:32,020
what we're writing a letter to her at

1576
01:22:37,230 --> 01:22:34,360
the end that the summer after my

1577
01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:37,240
freshman year explaining to her why I no

1578
01:22:43,530 --> 01:22:40,450
longer wanted to research UFOs it wasn't

1579
01:22:44,990 --> 01:22:43,540
I stopped believing it I still believed

1580
01:22:47,250 --> 01:22:45,000
in them I still believe they were

1581
01:22:50,130 --> 01:22:47,260
extraterrestrial visitors but I

1582
01:22:52,650 --> 01:22:50,140
concluded there was no way we could know

1583
01:22:55,890 --> 01:22:52,660
anything about them until they chose to

1584
01:22:58,440 --> 01:22:55,900
reveal themselves to us which might as I

1585
01:23:00,690 --> 01:22:58,450
said happen tomorrow or it might happen

1586
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:00,700
a hundred years from now so there's just

1587
01:23:08,510 --> 01:23:03,370
no point in my investigating there's

1588
01:23:13,470 --> 01:23:08,520
nothing I can find that very very slowly

1589
01:23:18,930 --> 01:23:13,480
my belief faded and then I made a

1590
01:23:22,500 --> 01:23:18,940
shocker all night this was in 1970 shock

1591
01:23:25,380 --> 01:23:22,510
was a young computer scientist at

1592
01:23:28,830 --> 01:23:25,390
Stanford University I was in California

1593
01:23:30,510 --> 01:23:28,840
at the time working for a professor who

1594
01:23:35,340 --> 01:23:30,520
introduced me to shock

1595
01:23:40,140 --> 01:23:35,350
I read passport to Magana and I thought

1596
01:23:44,420 --> 01:23:40,150
this is the man who has the answer that

1597
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:44,430
we are dealing with some phenomenon

1598
01:23:54,050 --> 01:23:47,050
beyond our understanding

1599
01:23:57,680 --> 01:23:54,060
and Ferries dwarves visions of God

1600
01:24:00,680 --> 01:23:57,690
extraterrestrial beings they're always

1601
01:24:05,070 --> 01:24:00,690
we forced them into conventional

1602
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:05,080
categories I did eventually become more

1603
01:24:13,290 --> 01:24:09,930
skeptical than Jacque was and is and

1604
01:24:17,130 --> 01:24:13,300
insisted that they're all a human

1605
01:24:19,050 --> 01:24:17,140
phenomena meanwhile I went I was

1606
01:24:22,260 --> 01:24:19,060
accepted to graduate school at Berkeley

1607
01:24:26,010 --> 01:24:22,270
and what did I study at Berkeley I

1608
01:24:28,830 --> 01:24:26,020
studied the visions of Ezekiel I studied

1609
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:28,840
religious traditions of heavenly

1610
01:24:35,760 --> 01:24:32,250
ascensions and other worldly journeys I

1611
01:24:38,790 --> 01:24:35,770
wrote my early early books on a form of

1612
01:24:41,490 --> 01:24:38,800
Jewish mysticism which I can now see has

1613
01:24:42,600 --> 01:24:41,500
a lot in common not only with primitive

1614
01:24:47,100 --> 01:24:42,610
shamanism

1615
01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:47,110
but also with UFO abductions and I all

1616
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:51,520
the time I realized I was doing the kind

1617
01:25:00,570 --> 01:24:56,650
of ufology which can get you tenure and

1618
01:25:03,890 --> 01:25:00,580
once I got tenure I came out of the

1619
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:03,900
closet as it were and said this is

1620
01:25:14,540 --> 01:25:09,370
ufology what did it mean to me what does

1621
01:25:21,630 --> 01:25:17,550
interesting you know there's there's

1622
01:25:24,570 --> 01:25:21,640
people that are philosophizing the other

1623
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:24,580
way around in other words the Bible and

1624
01:25:34,310 --> 01:25:29,370
for instance the Bible there's a lot of

1625
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:34,320
you know UFO or extraterrestrial type of

1626
01:25:41,610 --> 01:25:37,810
suggestions so they're actually putting

1627
01:25:44,790 --> 01:25:41,620
it the other way around that you know

1628
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:44,800
that aliens were here and they visited

1629
01:25:49,310 --> 01:25:46,810
us and then it's in the Bible in

1630
01:25:53,310 --> 01:25:49,320
different you know in different tones

1631
01:25:59,580 --> 01:25:53,320
which to me is one more conventional

1632
01:26:03,590 --> 01:25:59,590
ization that Ezekiel sees something I've

1633
01:26:07,650 --> 01:26:03,600
never known what it is what it was I

1634
01:26:11,100 --> 01:26:07,660
will call it a UFO but not meaning a

1635
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:11,110
spaceship I mean I mean I mean by that

1636
01:26:19,710 --> 01:26:15,010
the unidentified what ghost doesn't fit

1637
01:26:23,430 --> 01:26:19,720
into Ezekiel's categories he tries to

1638
01:26:28,770 --> 01:26:23,440
shoehorn it in by saying I saw visions

1639
01:26:33,140 --> 01:26:28,780
of God and somebody who later added some

1640
01:26:36,120 --> 01:26:33,150
passages to his book tried to do the

1641
01:26:39,030 --> 01:26:36,130
conventional ization one step further by

1642
01:26:43,380 --> 01:26:39,040
saying that it's really the furniture of

1643
01:26:47,790 --> 01:26:43,390
the Jerusalem Temple come to life now

1644
01:26:50,930 --> 01:26:47,800
you get people like bloom rich and a man

1645
01:26:54,090 --> 01:26:50,940
named Arthur Orton who's forgotten now

1646
01:26:55,770 --> 01:26:54,100
but who did it better than anybody else

1647
01:26:58,890 --> 01:26:55,780
has ever done it

1648
01:27:02,609 --> 01:26:58,900
saying he saw extraterrestrial beings I

1649
01:27:03,660 --> 01:27:02,619
don't believe any of them I say that he

1650
01:27:07,049 --> 01:27:03,670
saw the ident

1651
01:27:11,819 --> 01:27:07,059
unidentified and that unidentified came

1652
01:27:14,069 --> 01:27:11,829
from inside him I also heard no I

1653
01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:14,079
I guess if anyone would ever know you

1654
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:17,409
would know is the King James Bible or

1655
01:27:26,399 --> 01:27:21,730
baby was before that introduced the

1656
01:27:28,109 --> 01:27:26,409
miracles into it do you know anything

1657
01:27:30,870 --> 01:27:28,119
about that you know I mean like the

1658
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:30,880
miracles were added later to get more

1659
01:27:36,299 --> 01:27:33,489
interest or to get to make it more

1660
01:27:38,879 --> 01:27:36,309
interesting well maybe somebody did it

1661
01:27:41,370 --> 01:27:38,889
but it wasn't King James okay with that

1662
01:27:45,689 --> 01:27:41,380
there was earlier maybe the Romans

1663
01:27:47,549 --> 01:27:45,699
perhaps are you know and and I'm a

1664
01:27:49,709 --> 01:27:47,559
layperson when it comes to this stuff so

1665
01:27:53,609 --> 01:27:49,719
I'll forgive me if I'm really going way

1666
01:27:56,399 --> 01:27:53,619
off and on the wrong direction as far

1667
01:27:58,919 --> 01:27:56,409
back as we can trace the Bible text the

1668
01:28:01,770 --> 01:27:58,929
miracles are the core is that right they

1669
01:28:04,080 --> 01:28:01,780
were the core yeah okay I mean there's

1670
01:28:06,470 --> 01:28:04,090
no way you could there's no way you can

1671
01:28:11,479 --> 01:28:06,480
reconstruct the story of the exodus

1672
01:28:14,310 --> 01:28:11,489
without miracles now do you think these

1673
01:28:17,490 --> 01:28:14,320
do you think these miracles are on this

1674
01:28:19,770 --> 01:28:17,500
sort of on the same path as what people

1675
01:28:22,350 --> 01:28:19,780
are talking about when they talk about

1676
01:28:25,979 --> 01:28:22,360
UFOs well certainly that surely the

1677
01:28:27,990 --> 01:28:25,989
miracle of the Sun at Fatima was now

1678
01:28:30,810 --> 01:28:28,000
were the miracles of the Bible I don't

1679
01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:30,820
know once again because there

1680
01:28:38,850 --> 01:28:34,770
I mean Fatima is part of modern history

1681
01:28:43,740 --> 01:28:38,860
right there were we we know there photos

1682
01:28:50,689 --> 01:28:43,750
of the crowds watching the Sun so this

1683
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:50,699
is well documented but when Elijah saw a

1684
01:28:57,299 --> 01:28:54,210
fiery chariot come from heaven and

1685
01:29:00,689 --> 01:28:57,309
snatch up Elijah and carry him away

1686
01:29:05,129 --> 01:29:00,699
I don't know that Elijah saw any such

1687
01:29:07,529 --> 01:29:05,139
thing I can say very easily that it's a

1688
01:29:08,959 --> 01:29:07,539
legend about him I can't say that with

1689
01:29:10,970 --> 01:29:08,969
Ezekiel

1690
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:10,980
because to me there's no way of making

1691
01:29:15,170 --> 01:29:12,890
sense of the first chapter of Ezekiel

1692
01:29:18,170 --> 01:29:15,180
except by saying that it's precisely

1693
01:29:21,250 --> 01:29:18,180
what it claims to be a first-person

1694
01:29:24,650 --> 01:29:21,260
account of an experience by the

1695
01:29:28,939 --> 01:29:24,660
experiencer but the miracles of elijah

1696
01:29:31,790 --> 01:29:28,949
the miracles of moses i can say there

1697
01:29:34,790 --> 01:29:31,800
later legends the miracles of jesus are

1698
01:29:37,780 --> 01:29:34,800
not so sure because a lot of jesus'

1699
01:29:42,500 --> 01:29:37,790
healings are perfectly explicable in

1700
01:29:48,590 --> 01:29:42,510
terms of serve of illnesses that come

1701
01:29:50,510 --> 01:29:48,600
from the mind now okay now someone put

1702
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:50,520
it in the chat room here and it's

1703
01:29:55,100 --> 01:29:52,320
similar to what I asked you earlier but

1704
01:29:59,450 --> 01:29:55,110
I'll still ask this question for this

1705
01:30:02,110 --> 01:29:59,460
particular person they want me to ask

1706
01:30:05,689 --> 01:30:02,120
you why non believers of UFOs

1707
01:30:07,430 --> 01:30:05,699
unexpectantly witness a phenomena and

1708
01:30:10,340 --> 01:30:07,440
they tell their neighbor and their

1709
01:30:12,560 --> 01:30:10,350
neighbor actually said I saw it too how

1710
01:30:14,750 --> 01:30:12,570
does and I know you said something about

1711
01:30:17,450 --> 01:30:14,760
there's some type of quiet communication

1712
01:30:19,430 --> 01:30:17,460
going on but let's just say there are

1713
01:30:23,450 --> 01:30:19,440
witnesses in different areas seeing the

1714
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:23,460
same the same thing you know in one-one

1715
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:27,290
sighting one night in cases like that

1716
01:30:34,189 --> 01:30:29,850
well that happened what's as on for

1717
01:30:37,370 --> 01:30:34,199
fragments but I think I still think it's

1718
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:37,380
a it's a legitimate question in some

1719
01:30:44,330 --> 01:30:40,290
ways a very difficult one and I would

1720
01:30:48,050 --> 01:30:44,340
need to examine I would need to examine

1721
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:48,060
the precise the precise case now there

1722
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:49,890
are cases that cut in the opposite

1723
01:30:53,150 --> 01:30:50,610
direction

1724
01:30:55,729 --> 01:30:53,160
Kevin Randle reported on a very

1725
01:30:59,209 --> 01:30:55,739
important one in the International UFO

1726
01:31:03,890 --> 01:30:59,219
report of a young couple that were in

1727
01:31:08,360 --> 01:31:03,900
their car and they saw a light coming

1728
01:31:12,170 --> 01:31:08,370
down to earth the young man the young

1729
01:31:14,420 --> 01:31:12,180
man remembered it as a life and later on

1730
01:31:17,870 --> 01:31:14,430
Randle was able to identify it as the

1731
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:17,880
lights of an airplane landing the young

1732
01:31:25,879 --> 01:31:23,090
woman saw it as a disc

1733
01:31:31,209 --> 01:31:25,889
illuminate it from within in which she

1734
01:31:34,759 --> 01:31:31,219
could see two human-like figures and

1735
01:31:39,649 --> 01:31:34,769
Randall was able to trace how this

1736
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:39,659
memory blossomed appropriately called

1737
01:31:47,239 --> 01:31:44,130
his article UFOs on memory lane so there

1738
01:31:50,950 --> 01:31:47,249
we've got a different case of a motive

1739
01:31:55,729 --> 01:31:50,960
Li witness sighting in which one witness

1740
01:31:59,060 --> 01:31:55,739
sees a full-fledged UFO which fits into

1741
01:32:00,859 --> 01:31:59,070
some very familiar topologies that I I

1742
01:32:04,250 --> 01:32:00,869
don't know that there's any evidence of

1743
01:32:08,950 --> 01:32:04,260
this young woman knew about and the man

1744
01:32:13,129 --> 01:32:08,960
does not now what I am eating to ask is

1745
01:32:20,330 --> 01:32:13,139
what was the relationship of this young

1746
01:32:23,060 --> 01:32:20,340
man and this young woman I find because

1747
01:32:25,899 --> 01:32:23,070
well when I when I well when a young man

1748
01:32:30,350 --> 01:32:25,909
and a young woman are in a car together

1749
01:32:34,009 --> 01:32:30,360
well right I tend to assume that sex is

1750
01:32:39,709 --> 01:32:34,019
at least something somewhere on people's

1751
01:32:46,759 --> 01:32:39,719
minds how did that play into this once

1752
01:32:48,890 --> 01:32:46,769
again I don't know okay now let's talk

1753
01:32:50,899 --> 01:32:48,900
about the belief I've heard you

1754
01:32:54,259 --> 01:32:50,909
mentioned that a number of times and I

1755
01:32:56,870 --> 01:32:54,269
know my friend Sam moranto gets all

1756
01:32:59,330 --> 01:32:56,880
upset when people ask do you believe in

1757
01:33:02,359 --> 01:32:59,340
UFOs and I can't remember what is his

1758
01:33:05,149 --> 01:33:02,369
term is has it's something like it has

1759
01:33:09,379 --> 01:33:05,159
nothing to do with belief but what does

1760
01:33:11,089 --> 01:33:09,389
it have to do with belief that I don't

1761
01:33:17,839 --> 01:33:11,099
understand your question

1762
01:33:20,770 --> 01:33:17,849
I yeah what what is the belief of UFOs I

1763
01:33:25,100 --> 01:33:20,780
mean do you think it's a belief that

1764
01:33:26,930 --> 01:33:25,110
people are hanging on to or what do you

1765
01:33:29,540 --> 01:33:26,940
what do you you know what's your

1766
01:33:34,890 --> 01:33:29,550
thoughts on that I'm more inclined to

1767
01:33:41,540 --> 01:33:34,900
think it is an unconscious awareness

1768
01:33:44,910 --> 01:33:41,550
bursting out in interesting an

1769
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:44,920
unconscious and it just you mentioned

1770
01:33:49,650 --> 01:33:47,410
earlier that people talked about fairies

1771
01:33:52,470 --> 01:33:49,660
and you know leprechauns and things like

1772
01:33:58,910 --> 01:33:52,480
that so you just do you think this is

1773
01:34:03,000 --> 01:33:58,920
just a contemporary manifestation or

1774
01:34:07,410 --> 01:34:03,010
cross out the word just and it's close

1775
01:34:09,480 --> 01:34:07,420
to what I think hmm because I the last

1776
01:34:10,320 --> 01:34:09,490
thing I intend to do is belittle the

1777
01:34:13,050 --> 01:34:10,330
phenomenon

1778
01:34:15,930 --> 01:34:13,060
mm-hmm I think it's immensely important

1779
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:15,940
I think religion is immensely important

1780
01:34:25,650 --> 01:34:20,050
I think fairy beliefs are immensely

1781
01:34:28,440 --> 01:34:25,660
important do you do you think that

1782
01:34:30,930 --> 01:34:28,450
there'll be something else later another

1783
01:34:34,820 --> 01:34:30,940
something else uh maybe to do with

1784
01:34:39,660 --> 01:34:34,830
popular culture at the time we'll start

1785
01:34:43,110 --> 01:34:39,670
you know take the place of UFOs oh I

1786
01:34:45,090 --> 01:34:43,120
wish I were a prophet I could I could

1787
01:34:48,480 --> 01:34:45,100
know that well you know I mean it struck

1788
01:34:50,940 --> 01:34:48,490
me that UFOs are changing even now not

1789
01:34:54,810 --> 01:34:50,950
only what people see but if you if you

1790
01:34:58,830 --> 01:34:54,820
if you put on a Google you know what do

1791
01:35:01,830 --> 01:34:58,840
you call it notification there so you

1792
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:01,840
get emails one of the things about UFOs

1793
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:05,530
appear what I'm finding everywhere UFO

1794
01:35:10,590 --> 01:35:08,890
festivals are springing up have you have

1795
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:10,600
you seen that phenomenon the week we

1796
01:35:15,810 --> 01:35:12,970
just had the UFO festival and Exeter New

1797
01:35:17,670 --> 01:35:15,820
Hampshire yeah I couldn't make it and

1798
01:35:21,660 --> 01:35:17,680
I'm only a few miles away from there I

1799
01:35:24,740 --> 01:35:21,670
was busy though over the weekend so it

1800
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:24,750
was nothing like that when I was a kid

1801
01:35:31,500 --> 01:35:30,010
right UFOs fun for the family and then

1802
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:31,510
you you notice by the way this is a

1803
01:35:35,940 --> 01:35:34,330
riddle that caught my irked on and I

1804
01:35:39,210 --> 01:35:35,950
don't know that he's ever said that he

1805
01:35:41,190 --> 01:35:39,220
was solution is very convincing but you

1806
01:35:45,810 --> 01:35:41,200
noticed in all these UFO festivals

1807
01:35:47,330 --> 01:35:45,820
you've got you are fewer for aliens that

1808
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:47,340
sort of look like the greys

1809
01:35:56,670 --> 01:35:54,030
nobody ever sees little green men

1810
01:35:59,010 --> 01:35:56,680
no only like you said the Kelly

1811
01:36:00,960 --> 01:35:59,020
Hopkinsville that's the only time they

1812
01:36:02,490 --> 01:36:00,970
ever talked about it now I just someone

1813
01:36:05,490 --> 01:36:02,500
in the chatroom asked if they could call

1814
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:05,500
in so we may be taking a call and you

1815
01:36:14,340 --> 01:36:10,210
are welcome to call in oh nine rja is

1816
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:14,350
his uh his handle so we may be getting a

1817
01:36:21,150 --> 01:36:17,770
call coming in and if so I will I will

1818
01:36:28,100 --> 01:36:21,160
take the call and try to and try to

1819
01:36:31,230 --> 01:36:28,110
connect so now what about other

1820
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:31,240
phenomena paranormal do you think that

1821
01:36:35,970 --> 01:36:33,130
that are you thinking along the same

1822
01:36:39,150 --> 01:36:35,980
lines when people talk about ghosts they

1823
01:36:40,530 --> 01:36:39,160
talk about Bigfoot they talk about you

1824
01:36:43,140 --> 01:36:40,540
know all these other things that people

1825
01:36:44,790 --> 01:36:43,150
see besides you know a lot of times

1826
01:36:47,220 --> 01:36:44,800
people don't like me putting UFOs in

1827
01:36:51,210 --> 01:36:47,230
that same category but what's your

1828
01:36:53,970 --> 01:36:51,220
thoughts about all that I don't know

1829
01:36:58,190 --> 01:36:53,980
enough to have an any informed opinions

1830
01:37:01,770 --> 01:36:58,200
mm-hmm I do think that it's likely that

1831
01:37:06,590 --> 01:37:01,780
the phenomenon of people genuinely

1832
01:37:14,790 --> 01:37:06,600
seeing things that are not there is

1833
01:37:16,820 --> 01:37:14,800
cropping up in all of those of those

1834
01:37:22,860 --> 01:37:16,830
experiences

1835
01:37:27,990 --> 01:37:22,870
now did Carl Jung indicate that this is

1836
01:37:32,670 --> 01:37:28,000
some type of you know preservation you

1837
01:37:36,570 --> 01:37:32,680
know why people do this he thought that

1838
01:37:41,730 --> 01:37:36,580
the UFO is a Mundell and you know that

1839
01:37:46,610 --> 01:37:41,740
the basic Jungian idea is that as human

1840
01:37:50,520 --> 01:37:46,620
beings we arrange our experience

1841
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:50,530
according to certain patterns that are

1842
01:37:57,270 --> 01:37:53,770
inborn which he called the archetypes

1843
01:38:02,459 --> 01:37:57,280
and the mandala of the circle or the

1844
01:38:06,719 --> 01:38:02,469
disc is one of his archetypes which he

1845
01:38:09,299 --> 01:38:06,729
took as the inclusion the meaning the

1846
01:38:10,229 --> 01:38:09,309
inclusion and reconciliation of

1847
01:38:17,120 --> 01:38:10,239
opposites

1848
01:38:22,350 --> 01:38:17,130
and he looked out on a world torn

1849
01:38:26,279 --> 01:38:22,360
between the West and communism a world

1850
01:38:28,589 --> 01:38:26,289
on the brink always on the brink of

1851
01:38:34,700 --> 01:38:28,599
nuclear catastrophe as it looks like

1852
01:38:39,899 --> 01:38:34,710
we're getting back to a world in which

1853
01:38:45,899 --> 01:38:39,909
science arrogated to itself total

1854
01:38:49,500 --> 01:38:45,909
authority over truth and wisdom and he

1855
01:38:55,379 --> 01:38:49,510
saw something emerging from our

1856
01:38:57,950 --> 01:38:55,389
unconscious that said whoa this is not

1857
01:39:02,790 --> 01:38:57,960
all there is

1858
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:02,800
so for him UFOs were a wonderfully

1859
01:39:09,209 --> 01:39:07,449
positive phenomena interesting so we're

1860
01:39:12,899 --> 01:39:09,219
gonna have a call coming here in just a

1861
01:39:15,120 --> 01:39:12,909
second and I apologize I put the wrong

1862
01:39:17,729 --> 01:39:15,130
phone number up in the chat room and

1863
01:39:21,299 --> 01:39:17,739
that number is six oh three nine six

1864
01:39:25,020 --> 01:39:21,309
seven four oh three oh and you're

1865
01:39:29,069 --> 01:39:25,030
welcome to call in so this person's

1866
01:39:31,620 --> 01:39:29,079
calling right in and no I'm finding this

1867
01:39:33,839 --> 01:39:31,630
topic really interesting I'm not I'm not

1868
01:39:37,350 --> 01:39:33,849
saying I'm agreeing with you 100%

1869
01:39:39,299 --> 01:39:37,360
but I still find it fascinating and I'm

1870
01:39:41,790 --> 01:39:39,309
the one of the first people to say that

1871
01:39:44,279 --> 01:39:41,800
I have absolutely no idea what's going

1872
01:39:47,959 --> 01:39:44,289
on and we have a call coming in and I'm

1873
01:39:50,580 --> 01:39:47,969
gonna join the call now hello caller

1874
01:39:52,290 --> 01:39:50,590
welcome to the show and please identify

1875
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:52,300
yourself and tell us where you're

1876
01:39:59,310 --> 01:39:56,050
calling from hey Martin this is Ryan

1877
01:40:02,219 --> 01:39:59,320
again from Carolina oh yes I think

1878
01:40:05,129 --> 01:40:02,229
you're one of my only callers no weird

1879
01:40:07,379 --> 01:40:05,139
the gentleman from the UK calls the

1880
01:40:09,180 --> 01:40:07,389
number of times so thanks for calling do

1881
01:40:14,069 --> 01:40:09,190
you have a question for our guest Ryan I

1882
01:40:16,419 --> 01:40:14,079
do the resident skeptic is called let me

1883
01:40:17,830 --> 01:40:16,429
see I guess my questions I don't know

1884
01:40:22,899 --> 01:40:17,840
I don't know maybe I've missed it

1885
01:40:24,729 --> 01:40:22,909
perhaps but I guess my question is I

1886
01:40:29,470 --> 01:40:24,739
don't know if it's been covered yet or

1887
01:40:32,410 --> 01:40:29,480
not but UFOs and religious art what is

1888
01:40:35,740 --> 01:40:32,420
your guests take on that a lot of it

1889
01:40:37,750 --> 01:40:35,750
shows up on some of the Renaissance here

1890
01:40:42,399 --> 01:40:37,760
medieval there and I just wanted what

1891
01:40:45,070 --> 01:40:42,409
his take on that is yeah I mean there is

1892
01:40:48,700 --> 01:40:45,080
a painting in Italy that is known as I

1893
01:40:50,590 --> 01:40:48,710
think la Madonna del UFO which the

1894
01:40:54,580 --> 01:40:50,600
Virgin Mary with something that looks

1895
01:40:58,030 --> 01:40:54,590
like a UFO in the sky now the art

1896
01:41:00,250 --> 01:40:58,040
historians will say okay the only reason

1897
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:00,260
why we're saying those are UFOs is that

1898
01:41:08,140 --> 01:41:02,530
people don't read the Bible anymore and

1899
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:08,150
that what these seemingly UFO like

1900
01:41:15,010 --> 01:41:13,330
objects are are representations of

1901
01:41:19,570 --> 01:41:15,020
something that would have been

1902
01:41:22,450 --> 01:41:19,580
completely clear to Bible believers that

1903
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:22,460
they're not included in the paintings by

1904
01:41:30,370 --> 01:41:26,090
at random but in order to symbolize some

1905
01:41:36,250 --> 01:41:30,380
message now does this make them

1906
01:41:37,740 --> 01:41:36,260
irrelevant to today's UFOs I don't think

1907
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:37,750
so

1908
01:41:45,070 --> 01:41:40,610
because if the UFO is a religious

1909
01:41:49,149 --> 01:41:45,080
phenomenon then it's I would expect it

1910
01:41:56,919 --> 01:41:49,159
to have some resemblance to religious

1911
01:41:58,209 --> 01:41:56,929
symbolism in earlier time I'm not sure

1912
01:42:02,169 --> 01:41:58,219
what's going on I'm hearing some

1913
01:42:05,560 --> 01:42:02,179
feedback Orion yeah yeah please make

1914
01:42:08,410 --> 01:42:05,570
sure your computer is muted it is okay

1915
01:42:11,350 --> 01:42:08,420
okay very good so is that it Ryan or did

1916
01:42:13,510 --> 01:42:11,360
you have a follow-up question I know

1917
01:42:18,700 --> 01:42:13,520
that's all I am alright thank you now I

1918
01:42:22,240 --> 01:42:18,710
know that I did watch someone that was

1919
01:42:25,209 --> 01:42:22,250
explaining very similar to what David

1920
01:42:28,180 --> 01:42:25,219
just mentioned on YouTube that was found

1921
01:42:30,200 --> 01:42:28,190
in these paintings and so if you search

1922
01:42:32,030 --> 01:42:30,210
long enough you will find

1923
01:42:34,370 --> 01:42:32,040
that it's very interesting it's a very

1924
01:42:37,130 --> 01:42:34,380
interesting take on what these things

1925
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:37,140
are in all those paintings I think it's

1926
01:42:42,620 --> 01:42:39,410
a three three part series I believe

1927
01:42:44,780 --> 01:42:42,630
right and I was trying to think of an

1928
01:42:48,350 --> 01:42:44,790
example and one that came to me is one

1929
01:42:51,700 --> 01:42:48,360
where you see what looks like a disc

1930
01:42:55,760 --> 01:42:51,710
some are sort of in front of the Sun and

1931
01:42:58,910 --> 01:42:55,770
the clue as to what this means is that

1932
01:43:02,510 --> 01:42:58,920
there's a reference to one of the Psalms

1933
01:43:05,570 --> 01:43:02,520
and the biblical verse turns out to be

1934
01:43:10,459 --> 01:43:05,580
ye who believe in the Lord trust in the

1935
01:43:13,270 --> 01:43:10,469
Lord he is your help and your shield so

1936
01:43:16,550 --> 01:43:13,280
that the the what we're looking at I'm

1937
01:43:19,729 --> 01:43:16,560
tempted to say is not a UFO but a

1938
01:43:22,850 --> 01:43:19,739
symbolic shield but then I'll flip it

1939
01:43:28,630 --> 01:43:22,860
around and say what if the UFO that

1940
01:43:34,040 --> 01:43:28,640
people see today is itself a symbol like

1941
01:43:36,410 --> 01:43:34,050
that shield interesting all right right

1942
01:43:37,850 --> 01:43:36,420
it kind of the thing that the thing that

1943
01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:37,860
kind of makes me doubt it might

1944
01:43:42,440 --> 01:43:40,050
represent UFOs is you got you're looking

1945
01:43:46,790 --> 01:43:42,450
at the time you you doubt the church

1946
01:43:50,090 --> 01:43:46,800
would allow anything in to a painting

1947
01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:50,100
that would contradict their POV that you

1948
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:52,530
know the earth is the center of the

1949
01:43:58,370 --> 01:43:54,810
universe were the only people sentient

1950
01:44:01,760 --> 01:43:58,380
beings alive that sort of thing I would

1951
01:44:04,250 --> 01:44:01,770
agree I agree completely with that point

1952
01:44:06,140 --> 01:44:04,260
and I now would I would add that they

1953
01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:06,150
they would not have allowed and the

1954
01:44:11,110 --> 01:44:08,370
painter would not have put put in

1955
01:44:14,290 --> 01:44:11,120
details that were just inexplicable to

1956
01:44:17,630 --> 01:44:14,300
all of his details would have been

1957
01:44:22,490 --> 01:44:17,640
something that we may not be able to

1958
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:22,500
decode now but which in his time were

1959
01:44:30,260 --> 01:44:26,130
allusions to some sort of important

1960
01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:30,270
religious doctrines very good I

1961
01:44:34,580 --> 01:44:32,130
appreciate the call Ryan that was a that

1962
01:44:37,430 --> 01:44:34,590
was a very good very good point to bring

1963
01:44:40,790 --> 01:44:37,440
up and again we are taking calls if

1964
01:44:44,570 --> 01:44:40,800
anyone else wants to give us a ring and

1965
01:44:49,190 --> 01:44:44,580
ask our guests a quest

1966
01:44:52,550 --> 01:44:49,200
now as far as as other things when it

1967
01:44:55,460 --> 01:44:52,560
comes to connections like the paintings

1968
01:44:58,430 --> 01:44:55,470
that he brought up I don't know if

1969
01:45:02,830 --> 01:44:58,440
there's any other religious connections

1970
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:02,840
- you know people from other you know

1971
01:45:08,150 --> 01:45:05,850
extraterrestrial or star children when

1972
01:45:10,910 --> 01:45:08,160
you hear that that type of thing

1973
01:45:13,940 --> 01:45:10,920
do you believe that's that's mostly like

1974
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:13,950
in Native American is it along the same

1975
01:45:21,200 --> 01:45:18,930
lines do you think of a belief it would

1976
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:21,210
make sense to me that the star children

1977
01:45:26,810 --> 01:45:24,690
are some part of a transcendent order

1978
01:45:32,020 --> 01:45:26,820
that intersects with ours yet we don't

1979
01:45:34,700 --> 01:45:32,030
have we don't have access to it hmm

1980
01:45:39,350 --> 01:45:34,710
interesting

1981
01:45:42,830 --> 01:45:39,360
so now as far as your book let's talk a

1982
01:45:45,590 --> 01:45:42,840
little bit about that and you're saying

1983
01:45:47,930 --> 01:45:45,600
that's a novel so that is not I was

1984
01:45:50,900 --> 01:45:47,940
thinking that was up you describing your

1985
01:45:52,510 --> 01:45:50,910
story as a Young Investigator so let's

1986
01:45:56,510 --> 01:45:52,520
talk a little bit what is that exactly

1987
01:45:59,840 --> 01:45:56,520
about what what is that well I've been

1988
01:46:03,380 --> 01:45:59,850
asked is this novel autobiographical and

1989
01:46:05,300 --> 01:46:03,390
I came up with an answer which is that

1990
01:46:07,990 --> 01:46:05,310
what another to see if I can remember it

1991
01:46:11,150 --> 01:46:08,000
or is it a question is this

1992
01:46:14,480 --> 01:46:11,160
autobiographical okay the answer is well

1993
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:14,490
the car chases the intergalactic Sex and

1994
01:46:23,780 --> 01:46:16,890
the descent into the netherworld

1995
01:46:26,750 --> 01:46:23,790
our autobiographical I made up okay the

1996
01:46:30,050 --> 01:46:26,760
novel is autobiographical in that it

1997
01:46:37,840 --> 01:46:30,060
deals with a narrator a very unreliable

1998
01:46:43,070 --> 01:46:37,850
narrator whose mother is dying and that

1999
01:46:48,460 --> 01:46:43,080
he a story is coming from inside him

2000
01:46:53,210 --> 01:46:48,470
that partly reflects partly transcends

2001
01:46:56,900 --> 01:46:53,220
the tragedy he feels impending now where

2002
01:46:57,680 --> 01:46:56,910
did I get that story from its starting

2003
01:47:01,130 --> 01:46:57,690
point

2004
01:47:04,700 --> 01:47:01,140
was fantasies and dreams

2005
01:47:08,900 --> 01:47:04,710
I remember having as a teenager when I

2006
01:47:12,740 --> 01:47:08,910
was about 14 or 15 I dreamed that I was

2007
01:47:17,870 --> 01:47:12,750
in this rambling old house in the

2008
01:47:22,220 --> 01:47:17,880
country at a meeting of hyper serious

2009
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:22,230
teenagers who were interested not in

2010
01:47:28,250 --> 01:47:25,530
parties and dances but in exploring the

2011
01:47:31,939 --> 01:47:28,260
realms that lay beyond the edges of

2012
01:47:36,110 --> 01:47:31,949
science and among them was a beautiful

2013
01:47:40,930 --> 01:47:36,120
blonde in an evening dress and then I

2014
01:47:44,240 --> 01:47:40,940
woke up in the bull in the novel I

2015
01:47:47,479 --> 01:47:44,250
follow what would have happened if I

2016
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:47,489
didn't wake up following your dreams as

2017
01:47:57,080 --> 01:47:54,930
they say as they say so for the the

2018
01:47:58,640 --> 01:47:57,090
number of people that like for instance

2019
01:48:03,050 --> 01:47:58,650
in the chat room we're seeing over and

2020
01:48:07,970 --> 01:48:03,060
over again you know UFO is a real what

2021
01:48:10,310 --> 01:48:07,980
do you say to that person is it just and

2022
01:48:13,610 --> 01:48:10,320
after you know I'm a little bit confused

2023
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:13,620
I have to say by what you're saying

2024
01:48:19,820 --> 01:48:16,890
because you say they're important but

2025
01:48:23,479 --> 01:48:19,830
and you don't want to debunk you know

2026
01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:23,489
UFOs but also I'm getting that they're

2027
01:48:31,100 --> 01:48:26,449
something that is part of our psyche

2028
01:48:35,750 --> 01:48:31,110
does that make them less real hmm the

2029
01:48:41,570 --> 01:48:35,760
the UFOs that the Belgians saw are those

2030
01:48:45,910 --> 01:48:41,580
unreal these were it's very many evil by

2031
01:48:49,340 --> 01:48:45,920
the way the seeing in the sky emblems of

2032
01:48:51,650 --> 01:48:49,350
what you know is going on around you or

2033
01:48:56,360 --> 01:48:51,660
what you can feel going on around you

2034
01:49:00,439 --> 01:48:56,370
are those emblems unreal I personally

2035
01:49:02,450 --> 01:49:00,449
don't think so but I mean it may be a

2036
01:49:05,689 --> 01:49:02,460
matter of definition some people will

2037
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:05,699
say unless their nuts and bolts unless

2038
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:09,210
you can knock on them with a hammer if

2039
01:49:15,350 --> 01:49:11,570
they're here they get close enough

2040
01:49:17,120 --> 01:49:15,360
then they're not real I think young

2041
01:49:21,410 --> 01:49:17,130
would say it a little bit differently

2042
01:49:25,550 --> 01:49:21,420
and I guess I am a bit of a young hmm

2043
01:49:27,260 --> 01:49:25,560
now Ben Hansen I speak to now and then I

2044
01:49:29,960 --> 01:49:27,270
don't know if you've ever heard of his

2045
01:49:34,820 --> 01:49:29,970
name there was a show called fact or

2046
01:49:38,440 --> 01:49:34,830
faked and he was a former FBI agent and

2047
01:49:42,470 --> 01:49:38,450
has been researching UFOs for many years

2048
01:49:46,430 --> 01:49:42,480
interesting guy and his story is his

2049
01:49:49,460 --> 01:49:46,440
grandfather was involved in some secret

2050
01:49:53,390 --> 01:49:49,470
part of the military at wright-patterson

2051
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:53,400
and he would dissipate disappear for a

2052
01:49:58,070 --> 01:49:55,170
while at a time and you couldn't reach

2053
01:49:59,780 --> 01:49:58,080
him nobody could reach him or he told

2054
01:50:01,040 --> 01:49:59,790
you no don't even try to reach me or

2055
01:50:03,860 --> 01:50:01,050
whatever when I'm doing these things

2056
01:50:07,100 --> 01:50:03,870
well on his deathbed basically he held

2057
01:50:09,110 --> 01:50:07,110
his father's hand and he said something

2058
01:50:12,820 --> 01:50:09,120
I have to tell you and that is we're not

2059
01:50:16,130 --> 01:50:12,830
alone you know what do you think of when

2060
01:50:19,400 --> 01:50:16,140
someone from the military comes out that

2061
01:50:22,070 --> 01:50:19,410
supposedly had you know some type of

2062
01:50:23,930 --> 01:50:22,080
information and comes out and says

2063
01:50:25,760 --> 01:50:23,940
something like that do you think that he

2064
01:50:29,260 --> 01:50:25,770
was you do you personally think he was

2065
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:29,270
trying to comfort his son in a way or

2066
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:32,970
what Tyler your thoughts I doubt it

2067
01:50:41,720 --> 01:50:37,850
I think he's remembering something

2068
01:50:44,390 --> 01:50:41,730
experiencing something but I think

2069
01:50:49,360 --> 01:50:44,400
probably not something that's taking

2070
01:50:56,120 --> 01:50:52,430
interesting interesting

2071
01:51:00,320 --> 01:50:56,130
well it's been a real fun night I've

2072
01:51:02,750 --> 01:51:00,330
really enjoyed speaking with you and and

2073
01:51:06,020 --> 01:51:02,760
I really found it very very interesting

2074
01:51:08,720 --> 01:51:06,030
and go ahead and you're you're actually

2075
01:51:14,150 --> 01:51:08,730
your website is your name right yeah

2076
01:51:17,840 --> 01:51:14,160
that David Halperin dot net okay and

2077
01:51:19,070 --> 01:51:17,850
where can do you find they find your the

2078
01:51:21,620 --> 01:51:19,080
name of your book one more time and

2079
01:51:25,010 --> 01:51:21,630
where can someone find it Journal of the

2080
01:51:30,590 --> 01:51:25,020
UFO investigator it's in

2081
01:51:33,710 --> 01:51:30,600
some libraries and I think I hate to say

2082
01:51:39,290 --> 01:51:33,720
this but on Amazon I think they'll be

2083
01:51:41,840 --> 01:51:39,300
able to find it very easily yes so I I'm

2084
01:51:45,350 --> 01:51:41,850
sorry I don't want to give a plug for

2085
01:51:48,380 --> 01:51:45,360
Amazon but I think that's that's the

2086
01:51:49,850 --> 01:51:48,390
place to go I will ask you this because

2087
01:51:52,160 --> 01:51:49,860
a number of people that have been on the

2088
01:51:54,290 --> 01:51:52,170
shows over the years offer this I don't

2089
01:51:57,140 --> 01:51:54,300
know if you do or not if someone wanted

2090
01:52:00,760 --> 01:51:57,150
a signed copy of the book can they

2091
01:52:06,740 --> 01:52:04,130
yes now I'm just looking over craning my

2092
01:52:07,340 --> 01:52:06,750
neck to see how many copies I've got

2093
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:07,350
left

2094
01:52:16,730 --> 01:52:13,890
I better call soon okay so I make now I

2095
01:52:19,460 --> 01:52:16,740
make no promises but certainly I'll be

2096
01:52:21,770 --> 01:52:19,470
glad to hear from from anybody I could I

2097
01:52:26,090 --> 01:52:21,780
can tell them that if I do send them a

2098
01:52:28,250 --> 01:52:26,100
signed copy it will be a gift okay I

2099
01:52:30,620 --> 01:52:28,260
will not charge them for it if they want

2100
01:52:33,470 --> 01:52:30,630
to pay they have to go to Amazon but I'm

2101
01:52:37,700 --> 01:52:33,480
not sure I don't know how many copies I

2102
01:52:40,250 --> 01:52:37,710
need to hold on to and so let so let's

2103
01:52:44,390 --> 01:52:40,260
leave that but I would be I would be

2104
01:52:49,010 --> 01:52:44,400
quite delighted to hear from any of your

2105
01:52:52,370 --> 01:52:49,020
listeners on my on my website okay

2106
01:52:55,850 --> 01:52:52,380
another thing that happens and if you

2107
01:52:58,190 --> 01:52:55,860
wanted to check YouTube this this stays

2108
01:53:01,490 --> 01:52:58,200
up on YouTube just the way it happened

2109
01:53:03,710 --> 01:53:01,500
and we do get a lot of comments so

2110
01:53:06,500 --> 01:53:03,720
you're welcome to check that out some

2111
01:53:08,060 --> 01:53:06,510
good some bad but you definitely know

2112
01:53:10,040 --> 01:53:08,070
you want to check that out sooner or

2113
01:53:12,620 --> 01:53:10,050
later thanks so much David I really

2114
01:53:15,980 --> 01:53:12,630
appreciate it was a lot of fun thank you

2115
01:53:19,160 --> 01:53:15,990
so much Martin I enjoyed it immensely

2116
01:53:19,780 --> 01:53:19,170
excellent god bless all right have a

2117
01:53:25,160 --> 01:53:19,790
good night

2118
01:53:27,890 --> 01:53:25,170
see you alright bye-bye alright that's

2119
01:53:30,890 --> 01:53:27,900
it thank you so much if you were

2120
01:53:32,330 --> 01:53:30,900
listening live or thank you so much if

2121
01:53:34,820 --> 01:53:32,340
you're a supporter of the show and

2122
01:53:38,270 --> 01:53:34,830
you're listening to this as a two hour

2123
01:53:38,780 --> 01:53:38,280
podcast so next week we'll be back with

2124
01:53:42,260 --> 01:53:38,790
my good

2125
01:53:44,450 --> 01:53:42,270
friend Chris Lambright that is if he's

2126
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:44,460
in Texas you know I haven't talked to

2127
01:53:51,980 --> 01:53:48,570
him and I'm hoping that he is absolutely

2128
01:53:53,900 --> 01:53:51,990
okay so I'll touch base with him but as

2129
01:53:57,140 --> 01:53:53,910
it stands right now it'll be Chris

2130
01:53:59,780 --> 01:53:57,150
Lambright and he'll be back we'll be

2131
01:54:02,180 --> 01:53:59,790
back next week at the regular time which

2132
01:54:03,260 --> 01:54:02,190
is 8:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. Eastern

2133
01:54:05,300 --> 01:54:03,270
Standard Time

2134
01:54:08,820 --> 01:54:05,310
all right everyone thanks so much and

2135
01:54:20,390 --> 01:54:08,830
remember to keep your eyes to the sky